Probably they are less likely to leaks, certainly you won't get down drafting or vacuum locks. You may have heard of people having to open a window when burning their fire place because when their furnace comes on the combustion pulls smoke back down the chimney into the house.
Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype DaleLeavens Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] what to know about replacing your central unit > could it be said that the closed units are any less likely to CO leaks? > I guess I was forgetting that it is not the burned air, but the heat > exchanged off of the block that heats the house. > > > On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Dale Leavens wrote: > >> When you use an open combustion heating system you are burning the air in >> your building then sending it up the chimney. That air you have been >> paying >> to heat then running it through the flame and outside. >> >> A closed combustion unit draws it's combustion air from outside, burns it >> with the fuel and then sends it back outside. It never participates with >> the >> atmosphere in the building. This also means that the inside environment >> air >> never communicates directly with the outdoor environment through the >> heating >> appliance. >> >> It takes quite a lot of fuel to warm internal air to say 70F. To then >> burn >> that air to keep the rest of the air at that temperature is >> counterproductive, particularly if you can burn outside air that you >> haven't >> already heated. The actual temperature of the air being burned isn't >> important. >> >> Hope this clarifies things. >> >> >> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Skype DaleLeavens >> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 2:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] what to know about replacing your central >> unit >> >> >>> the only part of this I didn't understand Dale, was the >>> all ready heated air" part. What is the theory behind using cooler >>> outside >>> air? >>> thanks >>> >>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2007, Dale Leavens wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Scott, >>>> >>>> Yes, drilling holes to extract geothermal heat is very expensive. The >>>> water >>>> sort can be open or closed loop, they can draw water from the bottom of >>>> a >>>> lake or river then return it when the heat or cold is extracted from it >>>> or >>>> they can be closed loop, water or other virulant is run through closed >>>> pipe >>>> in a water bath like a lake. >>>> >>>> Rather than drilling holes though you can dig a trench 8 to 10 feet >>>> deep >>>> depending on your frost line, possibly a little shallower and lay a >>>> closed >>>> loop system into it. That is much cheaper than dropping it down a hole. >>>> >>>> To answer your other question, closed combustion units draw combustion >>>> air >>>> from the outside into a closed chamber where it is burned and then >>>> blown >>>> back out. Usually two 3 inch PVC pipes are used, there are limits to >>>> the >>>> distance you can run them, up here we usually push them out through the >>>> rim >>>> joist but the exhaust must be some distance from a window or other >>>> opening >>>> just to keep carbon monoxide out. >>>> >>>> There is a fan which comes on to clear any residual gasses from the >>>> system >>>> after which an igniter starts a pilot then the main fuel. Fuel is >>>> circulated >>>> along with the exhaust gasses back through the combustion chamber in >>>> ways >>>> to >>>> burn any incompletely combusted fuel and the lot recirculated until >>>> what >>>> comes out of the exhaust is about body temperature along with a load of >>>> water which is drained off the bottom of the unit. >>>> >>>> The better gas units or propane units claim something like 98% >>>> efficiency >>>> but I understand that there are fuel oil versions these days which are >>>> pretty darn good to, a little more carbon to get rid of I suppose. >>>> >>>> The real advantage is not just the efficiency but you are not burning >>>> already heated room air and you don't have an open flue constantly >>>> withdrawing heat up the chimney. Usually finding a place for an inlet >>>> and >>>> outlet pipe is easy no chimney and very cool. >>>> >>>> I expect you could go Propane but it will cost to have a tank, >>>> similarly >>>> fuel oil. >>>> >>>> If you have enough soil though, a back hoe up here costs about 50 bucks >>>> an >>>> hour last time I hired one and they shift a load of dirt in an hour if >>>> you >>>> want to consider geothermal. It won't be cheap to instal but it will >>>> give >>>> you efficiency similar to what you might expect with outdoor >>>> temperatures >>>> at a constant 55 or so degrees F. There is the additional cost of >>>> running >>>> the circulating pump but that is minimal. >>>> >>>> I have a gas closed combustion furnace in my basement, don't remember >>>> the >>>> capacity. I am now having a little trouble with reliability, it is now >>>> 16 >>>> seasons old. There are a number of sequencing things which have to >>>> happen, >>>> little vacuum sensors and such which detect that all the cycles >>>> complete >>>> before heat comes through each demand cycle and we have been having a >>>> little >>>> trouble recently with it. I took it apart last week and found some crap >>>> in >>>> the tip of one of the rubber tubes I think washed down the exhaust vent >>>> with >>>> water, it looked to me like a shard of the PVC when a pipe was cut, >>>> probably >>>> washed down over time with condensation. There are a lot of parts >>>> though >>>> which could fail. >>>> >>>> Hope this information is helpful. >>>> >>>> Dale Leavens, Cochrane Ontario Canada >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> Skype DaleLeavens >>>> Come and meet Aurora, Nakita and Nanook at our polar bear habitat. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Scott Howell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 3:42 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] what to know about replacing your central >>>> unit >>>> >>>> >>>>> Now water to air sound really interesting. Gee, wish I had known >>>>> about these when I was getting a new system. I looked into one of the >>>>> geothermal systems and they could install, but I'd need a 400 foot >>>>> hole drilled and man that would have cost some serious cash so I had >>>>> to scrap that plan. Drilling into the ground here wouldn't be easy >>>>> since we sit on a great deal of rock. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Scott >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To listen to the show archives go to link >>>>> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html >>>>> or >>>>> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ >>>>> >>>>> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. >>>>> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday >>>>> >>>>> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. >>>>> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml >>>>> >>>>> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From >>>>> Various >>>>> List Members At The Following address: >>>>> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ >>>>> >>>>> Visit the new archives page at the following address >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy >>>>> Man >>>>> list just send a blank message to: >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>> Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.1/690 - Release Date: >>>>> 16/02/2007 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> To listen to the show archives go to link >>> http://acbradio.org/handyman.html >>> or >>> ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ >>> >>> The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. >>> http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday >>> >>> The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. >>> http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml >>> >>> Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From >>> Various >>> List Members At The Following address: >>> http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ >>> >>> Visit the new archives page at the following address >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man >>> list just send a blank message to: >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: >>> 19/02/2007 >>> >>> >> >> > > > To listen to the show archives go to link > http://acbradio.org/handyman.html > or > ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ > > The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. > http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday > > The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. > http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml > > Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various > List Members At The Following address: > http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ > > Visit the new archives page at the following address > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man > list just send a blank message to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 19/02/2007 > > To listen to the show archives go to link http://acbradio.org/handyman.html or ftp://ftp.acbradio.org/acbradio-archives/handyman/ The Pod Cast address for the Blind Handy Man Show is. http://www.acbradio.org/news/xml/podcast.php?pgm=saturday The Pod Cast address for the Cooking In The Dark Show is. http://www.gcast.com/u/cookingindark/main.xml Visit The Blind Handy Man Files Page To Review Contributions From Various List Members At The Following address: http://www.jaws-users.com/handyman/ Visit the new archives page at the following address http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ For a complete list of email commands pertaining to the Blind Handy Man list just send a blank message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! 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