Larry, Purpose built for towing: manufacturers know that minivans and other vehicles may be used for towing. I guess that is why my T&C has a tow capacity of 3800lbs and a CGVWR of 8600, and that is without the factory tow package. The factory tow package does not increase this rating at all. The tow package from the factory just increases my payment. I can put a hitch,light kit, load leveling shocks, tranny and oil cooler on for a lot less then they want. The only difference in suspension between the factory tow ready and not is the shocks. The factory tow package gets you load leveling shocks, $100 for the pair and I to now have load leveling shocks. and much less then the $400 each the dealer wants. I am sure that most car makers do it the same way, just add parts to make a "tow package". It would be to expensive for a car maker to have different lines for the cars that get completely different parts for towing and not towing. Not to mention the risk and law suits if the weaker non tow part was put on a vehicle purposely built for towing. I do believe most tow packages are a dealer installed factory item. So the factory doesn't even know which ones will be towing and not. bad towing: How much less then 150 LBS do you think the tongue weight was? I ask because too little weight on the tongue will have poor handling in corners and make the tow vehicle and trailer pretty squirmy; the wind would only enhance this bad setup. 75 lbs is the lowest you should ever go on the tongue weight. the other thing that will cause this is that the tow vehicle and the trailer were not level, the hitch being too high. This will cause handling issues no matter if it is a Town & Country, or a F150. Or the third thing is the weight was not distributed on the trailer properly. The weight should be split about 55% in front of the trailer axle and 45% behind. >From what you describe, I believe the tow vehicle had nothing to do with the bad towing experience. It is hard to say why the vehicle couldn't get up to 45 going up hill, he might have had the 2.4 4 cylinder, or the 3.3 v6, and not the 3.8 v6. Or the trailer weighed more then you guestimated. Or pushing a head wind. All issues that can effect any vehicle. The Jeep Liberty actually has a uni-frame design. Never seen one, but sounds like it is a uni-body with additional supports. Assuming he has never had problems towing with the Jeep, my guess is the T&C and the trailer were not level, causing the towing problems you experienced. That small of a boat, I doubt it had its own brakes, but that only matters for stopping. It is not like Jennifer needs to haul around a 5000 lbs trailer, so what ever you decide, Jennifer, should be just fine, like I said in a previous post, make sure you and your family are comfortable above all else. Michael _____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Stansifer Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 14:40 To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] cars and towing First of all unless the vehicle was purpose built for towing simply adding a hitch and a light kit will do nothing but create long term problems for the suspension and drive package. A purpose built vehicle has upgraded trans cooler, in some cases an added oil cooler, additional engine cooling capacity, onboard computer remapping capabilities so that when you push the tow mode button on the dash it changes many of the vehicle's performance characteristics. You mentioned that your van is factory equipped and that is a step in the right direction. A very good friend of mine who lives in Montana has about the same setup on his town&country that you do. We decided to take his 14-ft aluminum fishing boat to a lake in the mountains about 30 miles away from his home. The boat, motor, trailer, fishing equipment, safety gear and beer cooler probably didn't way 1000LBS total. I know that the tongue weight was less than 150LBS Because I picked it up and set it on the hitch ball. On the flats the van towed it ok with a few handling issues going around curves. When we got into the mountains that poor v6 was wrapped for all it was worth and we never saw the top side of 45MPH. Coming back that evening we encountered some wind and the boat and trailer were whipping all over and the van didn't have the track, wheelbase or suspension to afford a lot of control. Thom told me that this was the first time he had towed the boat with his van, that usually he used his Jeep Liberty A full framed rear wheel drive short wheelbased vehicle to tow with. In the van's defense I will tell you that it was a single axel trailer and honestly I can't remember if it had it's own dedicated set of brakes or not. Regards Larry Stansifer -----Original Message----- From: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lenny McHugh Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 11:46 AM To: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] cars and towing Larry, Why? I have a Grand Caravan Sport. It has automatic load levelers, all wheel drive and came equipped with a towing package. I never towed anything with it. We sold our camping trailer many years ago. Lenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Stansifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:larrys%40infowest.com> com> To: <blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 1:37 PM Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] cars and towing None of the mini-van class vehicles are really appropriate for any kind of towing. Regards Larry Stansifer -----Original Message----- From: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert J. Moore Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:58 AM To: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] cars and towing couple more things to consider is some thing like an s10 blazer or a GMC Gymmy or if you like some other brand That way you would have the lugsury and room of a car and better milage than your big suberbin. Also you would have a full truck frame and rear weel drive which I think is much better for towing. I don't know about other models but I believe some if not all Dodge caravans have a uni body construction which I don't think will stand up as well over the long haul. So what I might look for is some thing with a full frame, 5plus passenger interior, preferably a 4 door, and rear wheel drive. From there you can check out gas milage. What I am really saying is there are much smaller versions of what you now have and you won't need much cargo space since you can pull a pop up or just a utility trailer for your stuff. -----Original Message----- From: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com [mailto:blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of carl Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 5:26 AM To: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] cars and towing you need a to bar fitted and then if you have the power you can toe anything ----- Original Message ----- From: Jennifer Jackson To: blindhandyman@ <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 5:15 AM Subject: [BlindHandyMan] cars and towing Hey Guys, I am having a car dilemma that I sure hope you guys can help me out with. My family currently has a Suburban, but it is time for something newer. We do a lot of camping and other activities for which we fill up the interior space and add a car top carrier. The gas mileage for around town is killing us though. My thought has been to replace it with a car that will hold our family of five, and then getting a trailer to tow with the other stuff when we need it. Can a car do this? Do I need a tow package? What questions am I not thinking to ask? I look forward to your answer and possible suggestions. We are still driving that Suburban with the busted out back window. My husband is itching to get something else soon. Jennifer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> See what's inside the new Yahoo! 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