I would say that depends more on the climate and how well insulated the pipes are during that run. I have known people that had their water heater between 40 and 50 feet from the shower and they had to install one of those little 5 gallon electric water heaters inline so the shower wouldn't waste all the hot water warming up the pipes on the way to the shower... ----- Original Message ----- From: tunecollector To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] Up Close with Tankless Water Heaters
There is a certain distance, I think it is 60 feet, in which a tankless water heater can effectively conduct hot water. Can I assume that this would be the same distance as with a regular water heater? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Boyce Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [BlindHandyMan] Up Close with Tankless Water Heaters Hi Try here http://www.e-tankless.com/ <http://www.e-tankless.com/> ----- Original Message ----- From: "tunecollector" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:tunecollector%40sbcglobal.net> > To: <[email protected] <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:24 AM Subject: RE: [BlindHandyMan] Up Close with Tankless Water Heaters > Any info on electrical tankless water heaters? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> ] > On Behalf Of Ray Boyce > Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:10 PM > To: [email protected] <mailto:blindhandyman%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: [BlindHandyMan] Up Close with Tankless Water Heaters > > Tankless water heaters have been in use all over the world for fifty > years, > largely because of smaller homes and higher energy costs outside the > United > States. In fact, tank water heaters are only used in the U.S. As natural > gas > > and LP prices rise (as they have for the past decade) it will cost > consumers > more to heat water. Imagine cutting water heating costs by 50 to 70 > percent - think tankless water heaters. > > Tankless water heaters - often called "on demand" water heaters - only > heat > water when needed. Tank water heaters, on the other hand, keep the water > hot > all of the time and, when on standby, loose about 6 degrees an hour. Heat > in > > the form of Btu's also escapes up through the flue pipe constantly. Tank > water > heaters are incredibly inefficient and yet are used in the majority of > American homes. Tank water heaters have a life expectancy of around 10 > years, depending > on incoming water quality. Tankless water heaters, on the other hand have > a > life expectancy of 20 plus years and carry a warranty on the heat > exchanger > from 10 to 15 years (depending on the manufacturer). > > A tankless water heater can save about 70 percent of natural gas or LP > expense a year for heating water except when the Teenage Daughter Factor > comes into > play - more on this later. The major differences, aside from energy > savings, > > are a gain in floor space of about 20 square feet and an endless supply of > hot water. > > Tankless water heaters come equipped with the latest water heating > technology and, as a result, sell for around one thousand dollars. The > payback period > will depend on how much hot water is used in the home. The more hot water > used, the faster the payback. > > Tankless water heaters are a good choice for singles or small families > simply because the demand for hot water is not as great as for a large > family. And > yet, a small family pays for heating water 24/7 with a tank water heater. > > The Teenage Daughter Factor: While it is true that tankless water heaters > can help you realize a substantial savings in gas consumption, this may > not > be > possible in all cases. For example, if you now have a teenager (son or > daughter) who likes to spend a lot of time in the shower - to the point of > using > all of the hot water in the home - you will probably use more gas than you > presently do. This is because a tankless water heater never runs out of > hot > water with the end result being that the previously 20-minute shower can > now > > run forever, or until you lay down some shower-length rules. > > A Closer Look > > In this short article we will look at gas-fired (natural gas or LP) > tankless > > water heaters that offer an endless supply of hot water for an entire > two-bath > home. Also available are electrically powered tankless water heaters and > point-of-use tankless water heaters, which will not be covered here. For > optimum > efficiency, tankless water heaters should be centrally located in the > home, > as this will reduce the time required to get hot water to a tap or faucet. > Keep in mind that water is not heated until needed. In fact, the heater > will > > not turn on until a hot-water tap is opened. If the tankless water heater > is located on the far end of a home, it may take a minute or two for hot > water to begin flowing from the tap. > > Tankless water heaters are controlled by a small computer and a bunch of > sensors, which note the temperature of the incoming cold water and a > number > of > other operational factors. When a tap is opened, the computer determines > the > > amount of heat required to raise the temperature of the incoming water to > the desired hot-water temperature. Then the burner is electronically fired > up - there is no pilot light - and the incoming water is heated to the > desired > temperature as it passes through the heat exchanger. The end result is an > endless supply of hot water. When the hot water tap is closed, the burner > is > turned off and the exhaust fan turns on to vent the unit. > > We will look at three of the top gas-fired tankless water heaters > currently > in use in modern American homes: the Takagi TK-2 Flash Water Heater, the > Rinnai > Continuum and the Bosch AquaStar 250SX. All of these heaters are top of > the > line and ideal for supplying an unlimited supply of hot water for the > average > or large home. While the Takagi and Rinnai heaters can only be purchased > and > > installed by a licensed installer, the Bosch AquaStar is available at home > centers and can be installed by a homeowner. > > Installing a tankless water heater in new construction is easier than > installing in a remodel. Part of the reason for this is that because > gas-fired tankless > water heaters are capable of generating a great amount of Btu's (up to > 195,000 Btu's on start-up) an adequate supply of gas must be available to > the unit. > Gas piping must therefore be sized properly. A gas shut-off valve must be > installed below the tankless hot water heater so the unit can be serviced > if > required. > > Generally speaking, 3/4-inch black iron pipe can be run up to about 20 > feet > of length from the gas meter or regulator, and 1-inch black iron pipe can > be > run for distances up to 70 feet. If other gas appliances are also in the > home (gas range, gas clothes dryer and furnace, for examples), larger > diameter > gas piping may be required to run all appliances at the same time. Keep in > mind that in new construction this is easy to plan, but in a remodel, > adding > larger gas line piping can add to costs of time and materials. > Additionally, > > elevations more than 4,000 feet above sea level may require adjustments > for > the unit to run properly. > > Tankless water heaters also have special venting requirements and must > only > be vented with a dedicated, sealed vent system. All manufacturers > recommend > a specific brand of stainless steel vent pipe. All tankless water heaters' > flue gasses are under positive pressure and must never be vented in > combination > with any other gas appliance - a furnace, for example. > > The tankless water heaters we cover in this article can be vented either > horizontally or vertically. Total maximum length differs between > manufacturers > from 26 to 40 feet vertically and 26 to 41 feet horizontally. Each > manufacturer covers venting in their owner's manual, which should be > consulted during > the planning stages prior to installation. > > Combustion air should also be planned for as well. If the tankless water > heater will be installed in an enclosed space - a closet, for example - an > adequate > supply of combustion air must be supplied. The Bosch unit has a separate > pipe for combustion air. The Rinnai heater has a unique combination > vent/combustion > air pipe. The Takagi unit requires installation in an area that will > provide > > an adequate supply of combustion air to the appliance or, if in a confined > space, with venting (a minimum of two 47-square-inch vents, for example). > > All manufacturers recommend 3/4-inch water supply lines for efficient > operation of tankless water heaters. Water pressure should be in the 30 to > 50 PSI > range. Additionally, a special pressure relief valve must be installed on > the discharge side of the tankless water heater. Shut-off valves, on both > hot > and cold supply lines, should be installed to isolate the unit for > servicing > > if required. > > Tankless water heaters also require a dedicated 120-volt AC circuit. > Electrical power is obviously required to run the onboard computer and the > electronic > ignition system because there are no standing pilot lights. > > Bosch AquaStar (Model 250 SX) > > The Bosch AquaStar tankless water heater is a relatively new unit > combining > German engineering and American technology. It's available through > Controlled > Energy Corporation, home centers, hardware groups, catalogs, internet > stores > > and dealers. The 250 SX is a powerful tankless water heater (175,000 > Btu/h) > and can deliver enough hot water to supply two showers simultaneously. It > is about the size of a suitcase weighing 47 pounds, measuring > 23-1/2-by-15-3/4-by-8-1/2 > inches, and is designed to be mounted to a wall. It has an efficiency > rating > > of 87 percent and can produce up to 384 gallons of hot water per hour. > This > unit should not be installed outdoors, in motor homes or on boats. > > This tankless water heater has a positive-pressure exhaust vent system and > a > > combustion air-intake pipe that can be mounted left or right on top of the > unit. Intake and exhaust piping can be installed horizontally or > vertically. > > Gas and water connections are 3/4 inch. > > An LCD control panel is located on the face of the heater and indicates > the > output temperature of water passing through the unit (factory preset at > 122 > degrees F). To change output temperature simply press the + or - keys > until > the desired temperature is set from 100 to 140 degrees F in 2-degree > increments. > A wireless remote control is also available. If hotter water is needed, > simply use the remote controller to increase the output temperature of the > water. > > The main LCD control panel also indicates other functions of the 250 SX. > When the unit is in use, a flame silhouette appears on the screen and the > temperature > indicator blinks. Once the desired output temperature is reached, blinking > stops and the unit will continue to supply hot water at the preset > temperature. > The control panel will also flash error codes if a problem should develop. > Error codes and possible solutions are covered in the Owner's Manual. > > An extremely knowledgeable technical support department is available for > questions about installation or problems with operation. This tankless > water > > heater > has a 12-year warranty on the heat exchanger and two years on parts. > > Rinnai Continuum > > The Rinnai Corporation was established in 1920 (Nagoya, Japan) and is the > single largest gas appliance manufacturer in the world with American > headquarters > in Peachtree, Georgia. > > The Continuum is the most powerful Rinnai tankless water heater (180,000 > Btu/h) and can deliver enough hot water to supply two showers > simultaneously. > It is about the size of a suitcase and is designed to be wall mounted. It > has an efficiency rating of 87 percent and can produce 213 gallons of hot > water > per hour. > > This tankless heater has a unique combination positive-pressure > exhaust/combustion air-intake vent system that is mounted on top of the > unit. Intake/exhaust > piping can be installed horizontally or vertically. Gas and water > connections are 3/4 inch. > > The Continuum is preset at the factory to deliver hot water at a constant > supply of 120 degrees F. An optional master remote control unit is > required > to > adjust output temperature and must be hard-wired before use. The remote > control cables carry a low-voltage, 12VDC digital signal. To increase > output > > temperature, > simply press the "H" button until the desired temperature is reached; the > range is 96 to 140 degrees F. An in-use indicator light glows when the > unit > is > heating water. The remote control also allows for diagnosing certain fault > conditions. > > The Rinnai Continuum was the quietest tankless water heater we tested and > carries a 10-year limited warranty. > > Takagi T-K2 Flash Water Heater > > The Takagi Industrial Company began in Fuji-City, Shizuoka Japan in 1946. > Takagi introduced their first prototype tankless water heater in 1952. In > 2001 > they introduced the Flash TK-2 tankless water heater and set the standard > for the industry. > > The TK-2 is a powerful tankless water heater (185,000 Btu/h) and can > deliver > > enough hot water to supply two showers simultaneously. It can also be used > for radiant, Hydro or baseboard heating systems at the same time as > supplying domestic hot water. It is about the size of a suitcase, > measuring > 24-1/2-by-16-1/2-by-8-1/3-inches, > and is designed to be wall or floor mounted. > > This unit can also be mounted on the exterior of the home. It has an > efficiency rating of 82 percent and can produce 178 gallons of hot water > per > > hour. > > This tankless water heater has a positive-pressure exhaust vent system > that > is mounted on top of the unit. Exhaust piping can be installed > horizontally > or vertically. This unit must be installed in an area where an adequate > supply of combustion air is available. Gas and water connections are 3/4 > inch. > > The Flash Tankless Water Heater is preset at the factory to deliver hot > water at a constant supply of 120 degrees F. An optional master remote > control unit > is required to adjust output temperature and must be hard-wired before > use. > To increase output temperature, simply press the "Hot" button until the > desired > temperature is reached. The range of the TK-2 is 99 to 167 degrees F. A > 'burning' indicator light glows when the unit is heating water. Unique to > this > controller is an 'Information' button. Here, you are able to scroll > through > incoming water temperature, outgoing water temperature and > gallons-per-minute > flow. The remote control also indicates error codes, in case the heater > develops a problem. > > As you can see, there are a lot of advantages to installing a tankless > water heater. Homeowners want appliances that are energy efficient, and > tankless > water heaters certainly fill that bill with up to 70-percent savings in > water heating costs per year. Add to that an unlimited supply of hot water > and > you have a winning combination for any home. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.5/1191 - Release Date: 12/20/2007 2:14 PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
