Thank you for the ping Eric. For ImageEngine <https://imageengine.io/>, the impact of removing the legacy delegation behaviour of dpr, width, viewport-width, and device-memory will be minor as ImageEngine has fallback mechanisms that will limit any negative impact. The challenge is more about how to communicate this to the users. Specifically, a clear migration path to "reenable" client hints. The recent support for markup based delegation will help a lot of course. Also, as another motivation to make the change, it would be interesting to know when the legacy key names dpr, width, viewport-width, and device-memory will not be supported anymore. I mean, fully replaced by the sec-ch- prefixed variants launched in M97.
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 11:33:53 PM UTC+2 [email protected] wrote: > Right now it's on track for M103, which has a branch cut in May and a > release in June. I have no issue pushing this back to M104 (branch in June > and release in July) to get a full 3 month buffer. > > Thanks for the outreach! > > > ~ Ari Chivukula (Their/There/They're) > > > On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 2:28 PM Eric Portis <[email protected]> wrote: > >> We have a non-trivial amount of usage which is relies on the legacy >> delegation behavior. We are working on outreach to will-be-affected >> customers, alerting them to the change and trying to get them to switch >> over to the new syntax. In at least a couple of cases the teams/devs that >> implemented Cloudinary + Client Hints originally are long gone, which makes >> things difficult... I think the most helpful thing for us would be a clear >> switch-off deadline for the legacy behavior, at least a quarter or two out, >> so that we can give customers a reason to make the change (but not panic >> about it). >> >> I know a couple of Cloudflare folks have been active in standards >> discussions, and Jon Arne Sæterås at ScientaMobile has been an active >> participant in a few Client Hints discussions, specifically. I'll ping them >> on Twitter. >> >> — >> Eric Portis >> Cloudinary >> >> >> >> On Thursday, March 24, 2022 at 1:22:14 PM UTC-7 [email protected] >> wrote: >> >>> @Eric Portis I wanted to get a sense of whether this narrow change (not >>> delegating to third-parties by default for dpr, width, viewport-width, and >>> device-memory on Android) would pose an issue for Cloudrinary and ask if >>> you had contacts I could reach out to at other CDNs. I saw potential use >>> from Cloudflare <https://blog.cloudflare.com/early-hints/>, ImageKit >>> <https://docs.imagekit.io/features/client-hints>, ImgIX >>> <https://docs.imgix.com/tutorials/responsive-images-client-hints>, >>> KeyCDN <https://www.keycdn.com/blog/client-hints>, and Peakhour >>> <https://www.peakhour.io/docs/responsive-design/client-hints/> but >>> haven't heard from them on this thread. >>> >>> ~ Ari Chivukula (Their/There/They're) >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2022 at 2:32 PM Ari Chivukula <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The modern syntax (I assume you mean third-party delegation of client >>>> hints via HTML) is shipping in M100 (stable release at the end of March). >>>> There isn't a plan to remove any existing client hint names. >>>> >>>> The question here is whether any websites are depending on dpr, width, >>>> viewport-width, or device-memory being auto-delegated to all third party >>>> sites when requested by a first party on Android. That's the legacy >>>> behavior that's being proposed for removal (ideally with M102). >>>> >>>> ~ Ari Chivukula (Their/There/They're) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 10:54 AM Eric Portis <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Speaking on behalf of Cloudinary: >>>>> >>>>> - We've started treating the modern hints the same as the legacy >>>>> hints, server-side >>>>> - We've identified which customers who are sending us legacy hints and >>>>> are working on an outreach plan >>>>> >>>>> It would be nice to have: >>>>> >>>>> - some certainty about the new HTML syntax. Is it likely to change >>>>> after TAG review or other-implementer feedback? >>>>> - a clear switch-off-date at least a quarter (or two!) out from the >>>>> final modernized syntax shipping. >>>>> >>>>> Basically what we'd like to communicate is a clear action item with a >>>>> non-panicky due date, with some assurance of finality after customers >>>>> make >>>>> (and are able to test) the change. >>>>> On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 11:39:40 AM UTC-8 [email protected] >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I haven't had issues loading those sites on Firefox mobile (which >>>>>> doesn't have client hints), but haven't specifically tried loading them >>>>>> on >>>>>> Chrome Android w/o hints enabled. It's true that we're betting on lower >>>>>> dependency given this change only affects Chrome on Android (where the >>>>>> default delegation was enabled), but it's worth asking a few CDNs to see >>>>>> if >>>>>> this was a feature being depended on that HTTP Archive isn't surfacing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there a good way to reach out to them? I can see documentation >>>>>> from Cloudflare <https://blog.cloudflare.com/early-hints/>, >>>>>> Cloudinary >>>>>> <https://cloudinary.com/blog/client_hints_and_responsive_images_what_changed_in_chrome_67> >>>>>> , ImageKit <https://docs.imagekit.io/features/client-hints>, ImgIX >>>>>> <https://docs.imgix.com/tutorials/responsive-images-client-hints>, >>>>>> KeyCDN <https://www.keycdn.com/blog/client-hints>, and Peakhour >>>>>> <https://www.peakhour.io/docs/responsive-design/client-hints/> in >>>>>> search results. I could try tagging some of them in a GitHub issue but >>>>>> wasn't sure if there's a better way to reach a wider audience. >>>>>> >>>>>> ~ Ari Chivukula (Their/There/They're) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 5:49 AM Daniel Bratell <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> How can we get a good grip on the web compatibility of this change? >>>>>>> The use counters are a high, but as you point out, the number of sites >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> actually depend on the legacy client hints is lower. The question is >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> "how much lower?". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You listed a number of affected sites. Has anyone checked what >>>>>>> happens to those with the hints removed? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /Daniel >>>>>>> On 2022-03-07 16:56, Ari Chivukula wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fixing the subject prefix, apologies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 7, 2022 at 7:54 AM Ari Chivukula <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Design Doc >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1igtMPtVTiX24bVaUo6tBgx3B16-HmUVPG7iDP5HkzD0/edit >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://wicg.github.io/client-hints-infrastructure/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One residue of the rapid Client Hints Infrastructure >>>>>>>> <https://wicg.github.io/client-hints-infrastructure/> iteration is >>>>>>>> the concept of a `legacy` client hint. It’s a set of 4 hints (`dpr`, >>>>>>>> `width`, `viewport-width`, and `device-memory`) which have a default >>>>>>>> allowlist of `self` (meaning that they are not sent to third-party >>>>>>>> subresources unless delegated via Permissions Policy) but behave as >>>>>>>> though >>>>>>>> they have a default allowlist of `*` (meaning they are sent to >>>>>>>> third-party >>>>>>>> subresources as long as the first-party page requests them) on Android. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This `legacy` client concept on Android will be removed and a >>>>>>>> permissions policy will be required to delegate the 4 affected hints. >>>>>>>> As of >>>>>>>> M100, Markup based Client Hint Delegation >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/JQ68cvYuiQU/m/bFjAWmy3AAAJ> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> is now available to allow delegation via HTML instead of HTTP headers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Blink component >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Blink>Network>ClientHints >>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component%3ABlink%3ENetwork%3EClientHints> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Motivation >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We want to bring these 4 hints in line with the spec; fixing this >>>>>>>> will increase privacy on Android by requiring explicit delegation of >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> hints. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> TAG review >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> N/A (this change brings Android behavior in line with the spec and >>>>>>>> better preserves privacy) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Compatibility >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Websites visited by android devices that request the legacy >>>>>>>> device-memory, dpr, width, and viewport-width would no longer have >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> hints delegated by default to third-party subresources. This would >>>>>>>> match >>>>>>>> the current behavior on desktop. Third-party subresources which need >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> hints would need to get the first-party that loads them to adopt >>>>>>>> HTTP >>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-permissions-policy/#serialization> >>>>>>>> or HTML >>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U3P9yvaT1NXG_qRmY3Lp6Me7M5kTnd3QrBb1yFUVNNk/edit> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> delegation of client hints. The design doc >>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1igtMPtVTiX24bVaUo6tBgx3B16-HmUVPG7iDP5HkzD0/edit> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> has usage/top-site information, and outreach is underway to ensure >>>>>>>> third-parties expecting this information are aware of the change. The >>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>> which require default third-party delegation of these hints are likely >>>>>>>> much >>>>>>>> lower than the sites which incidentally do so by default. As we >>>>>>>> encourage >>>>>>>> Client Hint adoption, we want to ensure dependency doesn’t form on >>>>>>>> legacy, >>>>>>>> non-compliant behavior. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Interoperability >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gecko: Client Hints not yet implemented (considered non-harmful >>>>>>>> <https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/#http-client-hints>) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WebKit: Client Hints not yet implemented >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Web developers: No feedback yet >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> N/A >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> New WPT will be added to ensure these hints are not delegated by >>>>>>>> default. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://crbug.com/1227043 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5694492182052864 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGpy5DJdHT1P-Dg%3DgmbkmA3K-HuDhg%3D1a0tVfv9c9g6wBHGCVg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAGpy5DJdHT1P-Dg%3DgmbkmA3K-HuDhg%3D1a0tVfv9c9g6wBHGCVg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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