Hi Arthur, Thanks for the questions, I will add more info in the Explainer regarding Privacy in Security<https://github.com/riju/backgroundBlur/blob/main/explainer.md#security-considerations>.
Replies inline - From: Arthur Hemery <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2022 1:17 PM To: blink-dev <[email protected]> Cc: Bhaumik, Rijubrata <[email protected]>; François Beaufort <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; [email protected] <[email protected]>; Guido Urdaneta <[email protected]>; Harald Alvestrand <[email protected]>; Youenn Fablet <[email protected]>; Bernard Aboba <[email protected]>; Jan-Ivar Bruaroey @Mozilla <[email protected]>; Kenneth Russell <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Prototype : Background Blur API. Hi there! We discussed this yesterday in the OWP Security&Privacy review and had a couple of questions/remarks: - Using underlying platform APIs is fine as long as all providers are aware that they are going to receive random content from the internet. It's important because they are often more privileged than Chrome. We should strongly fuzz these API to verify that they meet the bar. [Bhaumik, Rijubrata] The only source for Background Blur API is client-side camera via getUserMedia() and the native API is going to do the entire processing on the client. The native APIs does in-stream correction. Only then is the "blurred" stream sent to the internet. - From reading the spec it seems possible to obtain a MediaStreamTrack that contains arbitrary data and to apply background blur to it. Is that correct? If that's the case, then it makes fuzzing even more important. [Bhaumik, Rijubrata] Actually, the implementation [CL<https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/3714592>] does not itself apply background blur but it instead requests camera (drivers) to apply background blur so that the browser gets video frames whose background is blurred. I am not sure if it’s possible for the browser to retrieve unblurred video frames and try to apply background blur constraint to (frames originating from a canvas) those video frames, but this implementation does not do that. - With this change we know via constraints when the system has already blurred the image right? I imagine you get this information only after you've queried a MediaStreamTrack? [Bhaumik, Rijubrata] Yes, it is possible to know via the MediaStreamTrack’s settings the current background blurring is in effect (whether it is due to a system wide default or due to a constraints applied by a web application). The MediaStreamTrack’s settings are only available after a web application has requested to get a MediaStream and the user has granted that. Thanks! Arthur On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 10:16:55 AM UTC+2 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> wrote: Thanks Ken, 1. segmentation result - a grayscale mask : Yes, Harald (Google) did comment on this, something that MediaPipe uses. We discussed that MASK would be more important in Background Replacement scenarios. Since no platform APIs support Background Replacement right now, we decided to move it to future work<https://github.com/riju/backgroundBlur/blob/main/explainer.md#non-goals>. 2. Meet for input : Sorry, fixed that in the explainer<https://github.com/riju/backgroundBlur/blob/main/explainer.md#user-research>. I am reaching out to Meet again. In general, most of the stakeholders were supportive and thought it’s definitely worth prototyping. I will try to add more quotes/ feedback from others. From: Ken Russell <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2022 1:46 AM To: Bhaumik, Rijubrata <[email protected]> Cc: François Beaufort 🇫🇷 <[email protected]>; Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>; [email protected]; Guido Urdaneta <[email protected]>; Harald Alvestrand <[email protected]>; Youenn Fablet <[email protected]>; Bernard Aboba <[email protected]>; Jan-Ivar Bruaroey @Mozilla <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Prototype : Background Blur API. May I please ask two questions? 1) Has any thought been given to exposing the segmentation result - a grayscale mask defining the foreground (person) vs. the background? Building this functionality on top of technologies like MediaPipe, Tensorflow.js, Wasm, etc. uses the web platform's existing low-level, composable primitives to provide a range of capabiilties. On the web today, in addition to background blur, MediaPipe and Meet offer many background replacement options, which are arguably more privacy-preserving than just blurring. If the segmentation result were provided, the web application could implement these effects on top of it. It's understood that this API enables the use of custom IP cores which can deliver a result with lower power. At the same time, it's less flexible than what can be done on the web today. 2) Have the MediaPipe or Meet teams been asked for input? MediaPipe and Meet pioneered background effects in videoconferencing on the web. They're conspicuously absent from the "Stakeholder Feedback/Opposition" section of https://github.com/riju/backgroundBlur/blob/main/explainer.md . Thanks, -Ken On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 1:34 AM Bhaumik, Rijubrata <[email protected]> wrote: We are going to first implement this on Windows. “Real” support is dependent on driver support. If on your client machine, the camera app can do it, then this API can also do it. I don’t have a Mac, but there’s platform support<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1281408>, so we can collaborate once the initial Blink CLs lands. From: 'François Beaufort 🇫🇷' via blink-dev <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:51 AM To: Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> Cc: Bhaumik, Rijubrata <[email protected]>; [email protected]; Guido Urdaneta <[email protected]>; Harald Alvestrand <[email protected]>; Youenn Fablet <[email protected]>; Bernard Aboba <[email protected]>; Jan-Ivar Bruaroey @Mozilla <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [blink-dev] Intent to Prototype : Background Blur API. Thank you for starting this effort! Quick question: Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? Not just exposing backgroundBlur properties but also it "real" support. On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 9:26 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> wrote: Exciting work!! On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 11:46 PM Bhaumik, Rijubrata <[email protected]> wrote: Contact emails [email protected], [email protected] Explainer https://github.com/riju/backgroundBlur/blob/main/explainer.md Specification https://w3c.github.io/mediacapture-extensions/#exposing-mediastreamtrack-source-background-blur-support Summary Background Blur API gives web developers a choice to use the native platform's API for background segmentation. Background Blur has become one of the most used features on Video conferencing apps like Teams, Meet, Zoom, Webex, etc. We want give Web apps similar capabilities as their native counterparts, leveraging the same platform APIs and to delight users without completely relying on ML frameworks like TensorFlow.js, Mediapipe, WASM libraries or cloud based solutions. Blink component Blink>ImageCapture<https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EImageCapture> Motivation A vast majority of communication these days happens on our client devices. During video meetings, participants are usually aware of how they look and what their environment (usually their home) is revealing to the audience. Most folks, especially ones without a dedicated office space would be inclined to hide messy rooms with pets and kids. Video meetings like face to face meetings are important for non-verbal communication but participants would rather focus on the important subject by removing the distractions in the background and prevent any accidental snafus. Microsoft says<https://www.microsoft.com/en-ww/microsoft-365/business-insights-ideas/resources/how-custom-backgrounds-keep-the-focus-on-you> in a 38 minute conference call, 13 minutes are wasted dealing with distractions and interruptions. Background Blur goes a long way to cutting down those disruptions. Zoom says<https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/360061468611-Using-blurred-background>- "When a custom virtual background is unavailable or not suiting your needs, but you still want to maintain some privacy with regards to your surroundings, the blur background option can be a great alternative. This option simply blurs the background of your video, obscuring exactly who or what is behind you. It's great for hiding a cluttered dorm room, taking a meeting in a coffee shop, or just keeping things professional." . In fact, NCSC (National Cyber Security Centre UK) suggests using background Blur or a background image<https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/guidance/video-conferencing-services-security-guidance-organisations> for staff meetings to add a degree of personal privacy. On the Web, due to a lack of a standardized API for Background Blur and widespread demand, developers have no options but to use ML frameworks like Tensorflow.js and other WASM libraries to satisfy their customers. This Background Blur API gives developers a choice to use the native platform's API. Initial public proposal https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-extensions/pull/49 https://github.com/w3c/mediacapture-extensions/pull/61 Search tags background blur<https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:background%20blur>, webrtc<https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:webrtc> TAG review May be a good idea to file for a TAG review early. TAG review status Pending Risks Interoperability and Compatibility Gecko: No signal, but spec LGTM ed by Jan-Ivar (Mozilla). https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/658 WebKit: No signal but Apple co-author of explainer / PR. https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2022-June/032311.html Web developers: No signals Other signals: Almost every video-conference app has background blur feature. WebView application risks Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications? Debuggability Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests<https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>? Yes ( as part of CL ) Flag name MediaCaptureBackgroundBlur Requires code in //chrome? 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