If I'm reading the past thread comments correctly, the OT extension was approved until M106 (inclusive). Is that correct?
On Thu, Jul 28, 2022 at 5:36 PM Lutz Vahl <v...@chromium.org> wrote: > HI all, > > coming back to this thread as discussed a while back. > > Summary > > ‘SharedArrayBuffers’ (SABs) on desktop platforms are restricted to > cross-origin isolated environments, matching the behavior we've recently > shipped on Android and Firefox. We've performed that change in Chrome 92. A > reverse OT was started to give developers the option to use SABs in case > they are not able to adopt cross origin isolation yet. > > Updates > > We’ve received lots of feedback that adopting COOP/COEP is difficult > (details above). Nevertheless we made substantial progress towards removing > the usage - Chromestatus is showing that SABs in non-COI context are being > used on ~0.026% > <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/3721> page > loads (down from >2.5%). > > The API owners asked to prove substantial progress to allow an extension > until M113 (3x MS after shipping the last feature), which I’m happy to > share: > > > 1. > > COEP:credentialless <https://github.com/WICG/credentiallessness> - > https://crbug.com/1218896 > > COEP:credentialless was shipped in M96. (Adoption is already increasing to > 0.025% > <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/popularity#CrossOriginEmbedderPolicyCredentialless> > of main pages) > > > 1. > > COOP: restrict-properties > > <https://github.com/hemeryar/explainers/blob/main/coop_restrict_properties.md> > - launch bug > <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1347385> - I2E > > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/JrMX5H2PX_o/m/JipeWijACAAJ> > > Developers who depend on popups to 3P for e.g. identity or payment flows > can’t currently deploy cross-origin-isolation. To allow crossOriginIsolated > pages to use popup-based OAuth/payment flows, we plan to have a new COOP > value: “restrict-properties” that enables crossOriginIsolation when used in > conjunction with COEP. This new value restricts cross-window access to just > postMessage and closed instead of completely severing popup access. > > Spec work is ongoing (see discussion > <https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/6364>, and previous iteration PR > <https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/7783>) and requires partners input > to convince Mozilla that it is the correct solution, ENG work is ongoing > and we’re targeting M106 for OT and M110 to ship. > > > 1. > > Anonymous iframes <https://github.com/WICG/anonymous-iframe> and COEP > reflection - launch bug <https://crbug.com/1342928> - I2P > > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/CjrLTguZuO4/m/kEO65RvCAAAJ> > - I2E > > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/-7H19EHTenU/m/oWfFm21eAAAJ> > > Anonymous iframes are a generalization of COEP credentialless to support > 3rd party iframes that may not deploy COEP. Like with COEP credentialless, > we replace the opt-in of cross-origin subresources by avoiding to load > non-public resources. This will remove the constraint and will unblock > developers to adopt cross-origin-isolation as soon as they’re embedding 3P > iframes. > > Based on the progress made for storage partitioning and CHIPs, which are > needed to safely ship Anonymous iframes, we’re unblocked to start the OT in > M106 and the rollout in Q3 2022 (M110). > > The spec: > > https://wicg.github.io/anonymous-iframe/#specification (PRs: 1 > <https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/7695>,2 > <https://github.com/whatwg/fetch/pull/1416>,3 > <https://github.com/whatwg/storage/pull/139>) > > > > > PLMK if we can extend the OT until M113. Thanks. > > On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:08 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> Reusing this thread would be totally fine. >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2022, 11:29 AM Lutz Vahl <v...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> Great, thanks Chris. >>> I'll report back in the next months. Shall I use this thread to do so or >>> kick off a new one - any preferences? >>> >>> On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 11:09 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> LGTM to experiment for 3 additional milestones. I think this counts for >>>> sure as substantial progress. >>>> >>>> Thank you for all the useful information and your dedication to doing >>>> right by the web and partner developers! >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 5:58 AM 'Arthur Hemery' via blink-dev < >>>> blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi everyone I just wanted to chime in as the current owner of the COI >>>>> with popups effort. Spec discussions have been extremely long >>>>> <https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/6364> since the topic is >>>>> complex and other vendors don't have the same incentive, since they've >>>>> completely disabled SAB. We're working hard on making this move forward >>>>> but >>>>> some of it is out of our control. We're doing as much implementation work >>>>> in advance as possible, so that once we agree with Firefox it goes >>>>> promptly. >>>>> >>>>> PS: If you're working on a website that currently uses the reverse OT >>>>> because it needs to interact with popups, feel free to reach out to me >>>>> personally about your thoughts on the current proposal >>>>> <https://github.com/hemeryar/explainers/blob/main/coop_restrict_properties.md>. >>>>> Getting developers feedback will help make it move faster! >>>>> >>>>> On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:29:45 AM UTC+2 va...@chromium.org wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi API owners, >>>>>> >>>>>> CIL. >>>>>> PLMK in case you've additional questions. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 6:41 PM Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> The API owners met today and discussed this Intent. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Overall, I'd summarize as saying that I think the API owners would >>>>>>> only be comfortable extending the origin trial by 3 milestones at this >>>>>>> time. (We have not yet approved that extension however; first I'd like >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> wait for an answer to the followup question inline below). >>>>>>> >>>>>> Happy to report back after the M106 branch point if we were able to >>>>>> start the OTs of Anonymous iframes and COI+popups. We'll not be able to >>>>>> report any impact of the use counters on stable at that time. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> After that time, if you wish to extend it further, you'll need to >>>>>>> show substantial additional progress >>>>>>> <https://www.chromium.org/blink/launching-features/#step-3-optional-origin-trial> >>>>>>> towards shipping. For me, substantial progress could include "we rolled >>>>>>> out >>>>>>> more of the mechanisms to make it easy to migrate", "the number of >>>>>>> reverse >>>>>>> OT participants dropped substially", or "the use counter and list of >>>>>>> sites >>>>>>> at risk reduced substantially". >>>>>>> >>>>>> In the current OT time frame we've shipped COEP:credentialless - so >>>>>> there was substantial progress made. Nevertheless two pieces are still >>>>>> missing to make the adoption possible in all cases where we're working on >>>>>> finalizing the spec and the implementations. +Camille Lamy Is able >>>>>> to share more about the complexities involved and why this is taking so >>>>>> long. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 9:27 AM Lutz Vahl <va...@chromium.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 5:14 PM Chris Harrelson < >>>>>>>> chri...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 6:04 AM Lutz Vahl <va...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Contact emails >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> va...@chromium.org cl...@chromium.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zDlfvfTJ_9e8Jdc8ehuV4zMEu9ySMCiTGMS9y0GU92k >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Specification >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://tc39.github.io/ecma262/#sec-sharedarraybuffer-objects >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Design docs Including the new security requirements >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/SharedArrayBuffer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Discussion how and what to gate >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/4732 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ‘SharedArrayBuffers’ (SABs) on desktop platforms are restricted >>>>>>>>>> to cross-origin isolated environments, matching the behavior we've >>>>>>>>>> recently >>>>>>>>>> shipped on Android and Firefox. We've performed that change in >>>>>>>>>> Chrome 92. A >>>>>>>>>> reverse OT was started to give developers the option to use SABs in >>>>>>>>>> case >>>>>>>>>> they are not able to adopt cross origin isolation yet. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We’ve received lot’s of feedback that adopting COOP/COEP is hard >>>>>>>>>> (details below). Therefore I’m asking for your approval to extend >>>>>>>>>> the SAB >>>>>>>>>> reverse OT again from M103 until M113 (branch point 2023-03-23). This >>>>>>>>>> is an estimation - Can we come back to y'all in 6 months with a >>>>>>>>>> report on >>>>>>>>>> progress and usage to justify that extension and agree on the final >>>>>>>>>> milestone? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Experimental timeline / plan for all new capabilities needed to >>>>>>>>>> replace the OT >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The SAB restriction in M92 went smoothly without any major issues >>>>>>>>>> in the wild because we offered the reverse OT. We’ve received lots of >>>>>>>>>> feedback that adopting COOP/COEP is hard and sometimes impossible. >>>>>>>>>> Therefore the reverse OT is currently the only way to enable SABs >>>>>>>>>> for some >>>>>>>>>> sites within Chromium. Chromestatus is showing that SABs in none COI >>>>>>>>>> context are being used on ~0.36% >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/popularity#V8SharedArrayBufferConstructedWithoutIsolation> >>>>>>>>>> page loads. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This seems off by a factor of 10. The real number seems to be 0.036% >>>>>>>>> or so >>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/3721>, >>>>>>>>> right? Can you highlight why it's important to extend for 10 more >>>>>>>>> milestones for such a small percentage of traffic? Will the sites in >>>>>>>>> question completely break for some reason, or just behave the same as >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> non-chromium browsers? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's on me: 0.036% >>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/timeline/popularity/3721> is >>>>>>>> correct! >>>>>>>> Some sites use SAB to gain extra performance on chromium based >>>>>>>> browsers in some cases 3P content is using SABs. Some might work >>>>>>>> without >>>>>>>> the OT others will break based on how they identify their code path to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> used. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The list of OT registrations is ~500 and most of them mentioned to >>>>>>>> be blocked by 3Ps to deploy COOP+COEP broadly. >>>>>>>> We're happy to extend the OT to give them time to adopt. Do you >>>>>>>> (and/or other API owners) think this is not required based on the low >>>>>>>> usage? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for this information. Can you also share some examples of >>>>>>> specific sites you're concerned about breaking and how they would break? >>>>>>> >>>>>> I've shared Zoom and Google Earth already in the original post. The >>>>>> breakage is based on a performance drop in case pThreads are not >>>>>> available >>>>>> any more. Therefore the page (or parts of it) came unusable. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To overcome this limitation and make adoption possible more >>>>>>>>>> broadly (public feedback >>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/WICG/proposals/issues/53>), we’re working on >>>>>>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>>>> solutions >>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/camillelamy/explainers/blob/main/cross-origin-isolation-deployment.md> >>>>>>>>>> (all shared timelines are WIP): >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> COEP:credentialless >>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/WICG/credentiallessness> - >>>>>>>>>> https://crbug.com/1218896 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> COEP:credentialless causes no-cors cross-origin requests not to >>>>>>>>>> include >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> credentials (cookies, client certificates, etc...). Similarly to >>>>>>>>>> require-corp, it can be used to enable cross-origin-isolation. Some >>>>>>>>>> developers are blocked on a set of dependencies which don't yet >>>>>>>>>> assert that >>>>>>>>>> they're safe to embed in cross-origin isolated environments. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This mechanism was shipped in M96. (Adoption is already at 0.02% >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/popularity#CrossOriginEmbedderPolicyCredentialless> >>>>>>>>>> of main pages) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> COI+popups (formally: COOP same-origin-allow-popups-plus-coep >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/camillelamy/explainers/blob/main/coi-with-popups.md> >>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To allow crossOriginIsolated pages to use popup-based >>>>>>>>>> OAuth/payment flows, we plan to have COOP same-origin-allow-popups >>>>>>>>>> enable >>>>>>>>>> crossOriginIsolation when used in conjunction with COEP. Developers >>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>> depend on popups to 3P for e.g. identity or payment flows can’t >>>>>>>>>> currently >>>>>>>>>> deploy cross-origin-isolation. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Spec work is ongoing and we’re targeting Q2 2022 for the OT and >>>>>>>>>> Q3 for the shipping. As soon as the spec is defined, we’ll kick off >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> intent process. Without this all sites need to migrate to FedCM and >>>>>>>>>> WebPayment for their flows to be able to use SABs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anonymous iframes <https://github.com/WICG/anonymous-iframe> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anonymous iframes are a generalization of COEP credentialless to >>>>>>>>>> support 3rd party iframes that may not deploy COEP. Like with COEP >>>>>>>>>> credentialless, we replace the opt-in of cross-origin subresources by >>>>>>>>>> avoiding to load non-public resources. This will remove the >>>>>>>>>> constraint and >>>>>>>>>> will unblock developers to adopt cross-origin-isolation as soon as >>>>>>>>>> they’re >>>>>>>>>> embedding 3P iframes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Based on the progress made for storage partitioning and CHIPs, >>>>>>>>>> which are needed to safely ship Anonymous iframes, we’re aiming to >>>>>>>>>> start >>>>>>>>>> the OT in Q2 2022 (M106) and the rollout in Q3 2022 (M110). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Blink component >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Blink>JavaScript >>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EJavaScript> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Search tags >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> SharedArrayBuffer >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:SharedArrayBuffer>, SAB >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/features#tags:SAB> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewhttps://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/471 >>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusClosed >>>>>>>>>> RisksInteroperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We expect this change to negatively impact developers using >>>>>>>>>> `SharedArrayBuffer` today. Chrome was the only platform where SABs >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> been available without COOP/COEP. Therefore we need to give >>>>>>>>>> developers the >>>>>>>>>> right capabilities and a clear path forward to ensure they’ve enough >>>>>>>>>> time >>>>>>>>>> to adopt. We aim to mitigate these risks by adopting a >>>>>>>>>> longer-than-usual >>>>>>>>>> depreciation period with console warnings/issues and a reverse origin >>>>>>>>>> trial. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Good news is usage is down to ~0.36% >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/metrics/feature/popularity#V8SharedArrayBufferConstructedWithoutIsolation> >>>>>>>>>> page loads and that other browsers have or are shipping SABs >>>>>>>>>> again gated behind COOP/COEP. Bad news is that Chromium was the only >>>>>>>>>> browser that supported SABs without COI, therefore we need to >>>>>>>>>> provide a >>>>>>>>>> migration path to not break existing sites such as Zoom or Google >>>>>>>>>> Earth. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gecko: Shipped/Shipping ( >>>>>>>>>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1312446) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WebKit: Added COOP/COEP and SAB support recently gated behind >>>>>>>>>> COOP/COEP >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No - This OT is only for desktop, as this was the only platform >>>>>>>>>> where SABs have been available without COOP/COEP. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Android re-enabled SABs gated behind COOP/COEP: >>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5171863141482496 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1144104 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Launch bug >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1138860 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Blink-dev Thread >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Planning isolation requirements (COOP/COEP) for SharedArrayBuffer >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/_0MEXs6TJhg/m/QzWOGv7pAQAJ> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I2S >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/1NKvbIj3dq4/m/nLcgUst-BQAJ> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/4570991992766464 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> 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