LGTM3

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 2:24 AM Rick Byers <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thanks for the detailed analysis and explanation folks. This all sounds
> good to me. I'm convinced that this is mature enough to ship and that we'll
> continue to engage with the standards community to reasonably resolve any
> outstanding edge cases. LGTM2
>
> On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 7:12 AM Yoshifumi Inoue <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for response!
>> I really apricate Koji for detailed explanation about WebKit.
>>
>> Here is my answers of rest of questions.
>>
>> Alex's question
>>
>> *887 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/887> should define how
>> the initial-letter relates to line boxes*
>>
>> *Is there future compat risk here that we can reduce via WPT tests?*
>> We have tests, text-decoration (will commit soon) and ::first-line in wpt
>> for recording current Blink's behavior.
>> We're watching the spec resolution and wpt test changes. We'll work for
>> changes.
>>
>> Rick's question
>> *It looks like the feature is status=test instead of
>> status=experimental, *
>>
>> I change feature to status=experimental on Dec 1 UTC+9. So, we can see
>> initial-letter in canary soon.
>>
>> *so I can't easily see WPT results on the dashboard
>> <https://wpt.fyi/results/css-inline/initial-letter?label=experimental&label=master&aligned>.
>> Can you share the test results please?*
>>
>> All tests for initial-letter is written by me and these tests are in wpt
>> and chromium repository.
>> CQ verifies whether these tests are pass or failed.
>>
>> -yosi
>>
>> 2022年12月1日木曜日 17:17:53 UTC+9 Koji Ishii:
>>
>>> For the Rick's 2nd question:
>>>
>>>> Also can you characterize the extent to which our implementation is
>>>> compatible with the prefixed WebKit implementation?
>>>
>>>
>>> The coverage of Blink's current impl, prefixed WebKit's, and Gecko's WIP
>>> match for the following area:
>>>
>>>    - It works only when it is applied to ::first-letter pseudo element
>>>    (the spec requires to do this automatically if used outside of
>>>    ::first-letter)
>>>    - Supports Latin only (the spec covers other languages)
>>>
>>> Among the 17 open spec issues
>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues?q=is%3Aopen+label%3Acss-inline-3+initial-letter>
>>> :
>>>
>>>    - 6 issues (5527, 5366, 5244, 3217, 2866, and 864) are for these
>>>    areas.
>>>    - 9 issues (5476, 5425, 5398, 5220, 3698, 3240, 965, 410, 310) are
>>>    about adding new features, or interactions with features Blink doesn't
>>>    support yet.
>>>    - 4988 (used vs computed)
>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4988>: Blink matches the
>>>    current spec, WebKit's prefix impl, and Gecko's WIP.
>>>    - 887 (relation with line boxes)
>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/887>:
>>>       - Is the initial letter part of the block's first line box? Blink
>>>       matches the prefixed WebKit, and matches to what dbaron thinks in the 
>>> issue.
>>>       - Underline (test
>>>       
>>> <https://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0A%3A%3Afirst-letter%20%7B%0A%20%20-webkit-initial-letter%3A%203%3B%0A%20%20initial-letter%3A%203%3B%0A%7D%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22text-decoration%3A%20underline%22%3E%0A%20%20XXXXX%0A%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0A>):
>>>       Blink matches WebKit for how it draws underline on. But the offset and
>>>       thickness don't match; WebKit draws a thicker underline. This is 
>>> because
>>>       WebKit doesn't support the "decorating box
>>>       <https://drafts.csswg.org/css-text-decor-3/#decorating-box>"
>>>       definition of CSS text decorations yet. Also note that Blink 
>>> supported the
>>>       "decorating box" recently this year, changing the existing behavior. 
>>> So if
>>>       WG resolves differently for the initial-letter, changing the behavior 
>>> is
>>>       likely fine.
>>>
>>> In short, Blink matches prefixed WebKit for open issues. The biggest
>>> known difference between Blink and WebKit is the interaction with floats;
>>> i.e., when there are floats in blocks with initial-letter. This was
>>> discussed at WG after WebKit shipped, and Blink matches what WG resolved.
>>>
>>> Yosi will respond to other questions.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2022 at 2:26 AM Rick Byers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 11:54 AM Alex Russell <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> LGTM1 with nits:
>>>>>
>>>>> In the list above, it doesn't seem correct to me that we'll be able to
>>>>> change this one later if WebKit and Blink agree on a behaviour and the
>>>>> future spec changes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    1. 887 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/887> should
>>>>>    define how the initial-letter relates to line boxes
>>>>>       - We can match when resolved even after ship
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there future compat risk here that we can reduce via WPT tests?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Alex
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 4:44:28 AM UTC-8 Koji Ishii wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the one Yosi pointed out has some compat risks, but majority
>>>>>> of usages won't be affected, and that we can change Blink if the WG
>>>>>> resolves to change the spec.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me also note that Blink shipping the initial-letter property
>>>>>> solves a big interoperability issue authors have today. Adjusting the 
>>>>>> drop
>>>>>> caps position without the property requires hard coding the font metrics
>>>>>> into their CSS, and the font metrics vary between Blink/WebKit and Gecko.
>>>>>> So today, authors must detect the browsers and apply different baseline
>>>>>> shift values for Blink and Gecko. When Blink ships this property, authors
>>>>>> can use the property for Blink and WebKit (with prefix), and apply the 
>>>>>> font
>>>>>> metrics only for one browser, eliminating the need to detect the 
>>>>>> browsers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 28, 2022 at 10:50 AM Yoshifumi Inoue <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for reply!
>>>>>>> We think these open issues are related feature we don't support yet
>>>>>>> and edge case except below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4988 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4988> initial-letters
>>>>>>> changing used, not computed font-size
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At this time, the spec uses used font but this issue wants to use
>>>>>>> computed font.
>>>>>>> If the resolution is changed to use computed font, meaning of font
>>>>>>> relative unit "em", "ex", "n" are changed.
>>>>>>> This can be avoided by using non-font-relative unit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you have open issues will cause compatibility risk?
>>>>>>> -yosi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2022年11月25日金曜日 18:38:06 UTC+9 Yoav Weiss:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's a lot of open issues :) Can you tell which of them have
>>>>>>>> compatibility risk once resolved?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 1:11 PM Yoshifumi Inoue <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is summary of CSS WG Open Issues
>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues?q=label%3Acss-inline-3+initial-letter+is%3Aopen+>
>>>>>>>>> discussed with kojii and yosin.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    1. 5527 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5527>  Hindi
>>>>>>>>>    example for initial letter applicability
>>>>>>>>>       - non-Latin, not supported in the initial release
>>>>>>>>>    2. 5476 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5476>  kerning
>>>>>>>>>    of initial letter when initial letter has negative side bearing
>>>>>>>>>    <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5476>
>>>>>>>>>       - New feature, can add without breaking change
>>>>>>>>>    3. 5425 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5425>  Define
>>>>>>>>>    interaction of initial-letter and ::first-line
>>>>>>>>>       - : Add a test of ::first-line + ::first-letter (example
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>> <https://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0A%3A%3Afirst-line%20%7B%20font-size%3A%20200%25%3B%20%7D%0A%3A%3Afirst-letter%20%7B%20font-size%3A%20300%25%3B%20%7D%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0A%3Cdiv%3EXXXXX%3Cbr%3EXXXX>)
>>>>>>>>>       CL/4054845 <http://crrev.com/c/4054845>
>>>>>>>>>    4. 5398 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5398> Add
>>>>>>>>>    new value "auto" for initial-letter-align
>>>>>>>>>       - initial-letter-align not supported in the initial release
>>>>>>>>>    5. 5366 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5366> 
>>>>>>>>> initial-letter
>>>>>>>>>    sizing for non-western scripts
>>>>>>>>>       - non-Latin, not supported in the initial release
>>>>>>>>>    6. 5244 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5244> top
>>>>>>>>>    metrics for non-Western non-CJK writing systems with obvious top 
>>>>>>>>> edge
>>>>>>>>>       - : non-Latin, not supported in the initial release
>>>>>>>>>    7. 5220 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5220> 
>>>>>>>>> Alternative
>>>>>>>>>    initial-letter-align based on glyph bounds
>>>>>>>>>       - New feature, can add without breaking change
>>>>>>>>>    8. 4988 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4988> 
>>>>>>>>> initial-letters
>>>>>>>>>    changing used, not computed font-size
>>>>>>>>>       - Current matches spec and WebKit. If the proposal is
>>>>>>>>>       accepted, I think we can change even after ship.
>>>>>>>>>    9. 3968 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3968>  
>>>>>>>>> initial-letter
>>>>>>>>>    should allow zero sink?
>>>>>>>>>       - New feature, can add without breaking change
>>>>>>>>>    10. 3240 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3420> Leading
>>>>>>>>>    control at start/end of block
>>>>>>>>>       - New feature, can add without breaking change
>>>>>>>>>    11. 3217 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3217> 
>>>>>>>>> initial-letters
>>>>>>>>>    applicability to inlines after a forced break
>>>>>>>>>       - test
>>>>>>>>>       
>>>>>>>>> <https://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cstyle%3E%0A%3A%3Afirst-letter%20%7B%20font-size%3A%20200%25%3B%20%7D%0A%3C%2Fstyle%3E%0A%3Cdiv%3E%3Cbr%3EXXXXX%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22white-space%3A%20pre%22%3E%0AXXXXX%3C%2Fdiv%3E>,
>>>>>>>>>       when impl is limited to `::first-letter`, this is an edge case 
>>>>>>>>> that we can
>>>>>>>>>       match when resolved even after ship
>>>>>>>>>    12. 2886 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/2886> Line
>>>>>>>>>    breaks inside drop-caps?
>>>>>>>>>       - Without ::first-letter case, not supported in the initial
>>>>>>>>>       release
>>>>>>>>>    13. 965 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/965> support
>>>>>>>>>    adjacent initial-letter as well
>>>>>>>>>       - New feature, can add without breaking change
>>>>>>>>>    14. 887 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/887> should
>>>>>>>>>    define how the initial-letter relates to line boxes
>>>>>>>>>       - We can match when resolved even after ship
>>>>>>>>>    15. 864 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/864> alignment
>>>>>>>>>    of initial-letter for South Asian scripts without hanging baseline
>>>>>>>>>       - non-Latin, not supported in the initial release
>>>>>>>>>    16. 410 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/410> should
>>>>>>>>>    initial-letter-wrap have an auto value?
>>>>>>>>>       - `initial-letter-wrap` not supported in the initial release
>>>>>>>>>    17. 310 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/310> Initial
>>>>>>>>>    Letter selection and hanging punctuation
>>>>>>>>>       - : N/A because we don't support hanging punctuation yet
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -yosi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2022年11月24日木曜日 11:22:22 UTC+9 Yoshifumi Inoue:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for reviewing!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I forgot to update web-platform-test section in the tool. We have
>>>>>>>>>> test cases in wpt.
>>>>>>>>>> https://wpt.live/css/css-inline/initial-letter/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> Thanks for this. It looks like the feature is status=test instead of
>>>> status=experimental, so I can't easily see WPT results on the dashboard
>>>> <https://wpt.fyi/results/css-inline/initial-letter?label=experimental&label=master&aligned>.
>>>> Can you share the test results please?
>>>>
>>>> Also can you characterize the extent to which our implementation is
>>>> compatible with the prefixed WebKit implementation? Are there known major
>>>> differences? Especially in the case of the open spec issues which could
>>>> have future compat implications, I'd feel much more comfortable aligning
>>>> with what developers are already using via -webkit-initial-letter than if
>>>> we were aligning with some new behavior with an open issue that considers
>>>> matching WebKit.
>>>>
>>>> *>Any idea what the position in the CSS WG is about the maturity of the
>>>>>>>>>> spec for this feature? I see a bunch of open spec issues
>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues?q=is%3Aopen+label%3Acss-inline-3+initial-letter>
>>>>>>>>>>  mentioning
>>>>>>>>>> initial letter. To what extent are you confident that none of them
>>>>>>>>>> represent a potential breaking change depending on their resolution?*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In this release, we focus on basic functionality, apply only to
>>>>>>>>>> ::first-letter, as WebKit does.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think current spec is stable for Western language in
>>>>>>>>>> ::first-letter. So, I don't think we'll have breaking change for 
>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>> For non-Western language, we need to do some handling of them
>>>>>>>>>> once CSS WG has resolutions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We also hope web developers will have some idea from experience,
>>>>>>>>>> these help CSS WG's resolutions somehow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - yosi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2022年11月24日木曜日 1:27:09 UTC+9 Rick Byers:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 3:41 AM Yoshifumi Inoue <
>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Contact [email protected], [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ExplainerNone
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Specification
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-inline/#initial-letter-styling
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Design docs
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://bit.ly/3KzJ27G
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Summary
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Initial letters are large, decorative letters have been used to
>>>>>>>>>>>> start new sections of text since before the invention of printing. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>> their use predates lowercase letters entirely. Blink will support 
>>>>>>>>>>>> CSS
>>>>>>>>>>>> property "initial-letter".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blink componentBlink>Layout>Inline
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3ELayout%3EInline>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG reviewWebKit shipped `-webkit-initial-letter`.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> TAG review statusNot applicable
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Risks
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chrome supports full syntax of `initial-letter`: 1
>>>>>>>>>>>> `initial-letter:` number 2 `initial-letter:` number integer
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.`initial-letter:` number `drop` 4.`initial-letter:` number 
>>>>>>>>>>>> `raise`
>>>>>>>>>>>> However Safari supports: 1. `-webkit-initial-letter:` integer 2.
>>>>>>>>>>>> `-webkit-initial-letter:` integer integer So, web authors needs to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>>>> Safari compatible syntax.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Gecko*: In development (
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/711) No
>>>>>>>>>>>> active development since 2017.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *WebKit*: Shipped/Shipping (
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/94) Needs
>>>>>>>>>>>> to use prefix version `-webkit-initial-letter`. Supports only an 
>>>>>>>>>>>> integer
>>>>>>>>>>>> size. No `drop` and `raise` keyword support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Web developers*: No signals It’s implemented only in Safari,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but the usage is high. * 40.2% usage ratio according to CSS2021 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Usage
>>>>>>>>>>>> Overview[1]. * 23.9% have used it according to CSS2021 Typography
>>>>>>>>>>>> features[2]. [1]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://2021.stateofcss.com/en-US/features/#features_overview
>>>>>>>>>>>>  [2]
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://2021.stateofcss.com/en-US/features/typography/#initial_letter
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Other signals*:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WebView application risks
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based
>>>>>>>>>>>> applications?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> None.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Debuggability
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?No
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ?No
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why not? Is there any reason tests couldn't reasonably be added
>>>>>>>>>>> prior to shipping?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> DevTrial instructionshttps://output.jsbin.com/basukanebo/1
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Flag name
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?False
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1276900
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-OSS dependencies
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the feature depend on any code or APIs outside the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chromium open source repository and its open-source dependencies to
>>>>>>>>>>>> function?
>>>>>>>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sample links
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://output.jsbin.com/basukanebo/1
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> M110
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web
>>>>>>>>>>>> compat or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> known
>>>>>>>>>>>> github issues in the project for the feature specification) whose
>>>>>>>>>>>> resolution may introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to naming
>>>>>>>>>>>> or structure of the API in a non-backward-compatible way).
>>>>>>>>>>>> None.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any idea what the position in the CSS WG is about the maturity
>>>>>>>>>>> of the spec for this feature? I see a bunch of open spec issues
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues?q=is%3Aopen+label%3Acss-inline-3+initial-letter>
>>>>>>>>>>>  mentioning
>>>>>>>>>>> initial letter. To what extent are you confident that none of them
>>>>>>>>>>> represent a potential breaking change depending on their resolution?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5167442033115136
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussionsIntent to prototype:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABJ-EHNMC29gEMkgopMJFW6LfWCCuxXmC0F%2BRPpOuM%3Dznbo5LQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> Intent to Experiment:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABJ-EHPFVLa-frSXmjhbK97L%3D8eh7ZeS6Uap3BiSNfksDicdHA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/dcc32334-ed12-4c85-b80e-0eb97027496cn%40chromium.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>> .
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TAMURA Kent
Software Engineer, Google

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