Hi Anna, yes the experiment is being rolled back to 0% Stable (it's still 50% on Canary/Beta though). The rollback has already been submitted, but unfortunately we must wait for the next config push. I'm told this happens on *Monday, 9AM Pacific Time*. Users will need to restart their browser to get the config.
In preparation for the next rollout, I've filed the much needed intent to deprecate here: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/NZVXsJQ7tV8. Please provide input on the proposed plans. On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 12:45:00 AM UTC+1 Anna Vasilko wrote: > Hi Henrik, > Just wanted to double check that the latest plan is to revert the > experiment, correct? Asking because there was somewhat different comment on > the PR here > <https://github.com/twilio/twilio-video.js/pull/1970#issuecomment-1404596109> > . > At Twilio we really hope the experiment can be reverted asap given that it > is breaking for our customers and their end users in the wild. The adoption > of our new sdk release (with the above PR change) will take long time for > most of the customers as they need to 1) learn about the issue 2) pick-up > the new sdk version 3) roll out their applications with the new sdk > version. For some customers it takes months. > Basically the only way to really stop the breaking impact is to stop the > experiment and give some notice and time to adopt the changes. > > I have to acknowledge it took surprisingly long time for us to discover > this breaking change and act on it. Holidays probably played a role here. > But we will do a retrospective internally to understand the reasons better > and to catch such issues sooner in the future. > > On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 12:57:38 AM UTC-8 Henrik Boström wrote: > >> I'll roll it back and file an intent to deprecate thread. It was a big >> mistake that I forgot to do that in the first place, and it's unfortunate >> that we have to roll this back. But I take having reached 50% Stable and >> only knowing for sure about Twilio as a positive sign (if this was very >> widespread we would have heard about it earlier than we did). Still it >> seems like Finch is a problem for Selenium test environments in that it's >> possible to run test code for several months without noticing a feature is >> on. That's a bit sad. >> >> On Thursday, January 26, 2023 at 8:46:19 PM UTC+1 Sudheer Boynapally >> wrote: >> >>> Is the experiment rolled back on January 25th ? or it is still at 50% >>> stable for M 109? >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:47 AM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> It appears this change is causing breakage at scale, including for our >>>> partners. >>>> >>>> Given how this is going, I'd like to suggest the following course of >>>> action: >>>> >>>> - Turn down the Finch rollout to 0% immediately >>>> - Revert the change in 111 >>>> - File an intent-to-deprecate here ASAP w/ whatever data on compat >>>> we can gather (as it looks like usecounters won't work) so we can >>>> discuss a >>>> new plan to land this >>>> >>>> We have options that might be more suitable (e.g., reverse OT), or >>>> maybe the change just needs devrel in wider channels + time to breathe. >>>> Either way, backing off of this rollout seems like the right thing to do. >>>> In future, web-visible WebRTC changes also need to come through the main >>>> Blink intents process. Let's start down that path now. >>>> >>>> Curious for other API OWNERs feedback, so cc-ing >>>> blink-api-owners-discuss@. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 25, 2023 at 10:04 PM Henrik Boström <hb...@google.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The track and stream removal experiment is at 50% Stable for M109. On >>>>> January 23rd it went from 10% to 50%. The intent is to ramp up to 100%. >>>>> Which experiment group you end up with (have or not have the >>>>> deprecated stats) are chosen with a dice roll every time the user >>>>> restarts >>>>> their browser. >>>>> >>>>> In M111 (which is currently Canary) the removal is enabled-by-default >>>>> so in that version there is no dependency on getting finch configs pushed >>>>> anymore. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 12:52 AM Sudheer Boynapally < >>>>> sudhe...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Was there any change on January 23rd corresponding to this? like >>>>>> rolling out this deprecation? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 at 2:57:16 PM UTC-8 Sudheer Boynapally >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is the deprecation of 'track' and 'stream' objects completed 100% on >>>>>>> all the versions of chrome v109 or any specific sub version of 109? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 5:56:04 AM UTC-8 Henrik Boström >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 8:51 AM Yoav Weiss <yoav...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +Henrik Boström - was there an intent sent for this removal? Any >>>>>>>>> form of developer communication? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There was developer communication dating as far back as July but I >>>>>>>> admit I had forgotten to send out a formal blink-dev intent to >>>>>>>> deprecate! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - I should have done that. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The getStats() API in question is not being deprecated, but the >>>>>>>> RTCStatsReport (an id-to-stats-object map) report will stop containing >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> stats object which were made obsolete in the spec several years ago >>>>>>>> due to >>>>>>>> the contents of these stats objects having been moved to other stats >>>>>>>> objects that are still being returned. Same values, different >>>>>>>> location. In >>>>>>>> other words, the report is being trimmed down by removing duplicate >>>>>>>> information. Stats processing code in an application is gated on stats >>>>>>>> type >>>>>>>> for knowing which metrics to look for on an individual stats object >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> should make this lower risk compared to other depracations. The >>>>>>>> motivation >>>>>>>> for this is performance optimizations (~40% report size reduction), >>>>>>>> technical debt reduction (-1400 LOC) and web compat ("track" does >>>>>>>> not exist in Firefox <https://webrtc-stats.callstats.io/verify/>). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The communication channel used was WebRTC's official google group, >>>>>>>> discuss-webrtc <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc>. >>>>>>>> History: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - July 25, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/lfkFCY2CFco> >>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>> the plan to deprecate at a milestone TBD. This was also the time >>>>>>>> where the >>>>>>>> "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added to the JavaScript-exposed stats >>>>>>>> object IDs, >>>>>>>> which made it into M106. The deprecation prefix is also visible in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> chrome://webrtc-internals/ developer page when a page uses WebRTC. >>>>>>>> - There was another PSA on September 6, 2022 >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/mmudYReualE> about >>>>>>>> other stats news with a reminder of the imminent stats deprecation. >>>>>>>> - The October 19, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g> >>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>> "track" stats being removed at 50% Canary. >>>>>>>> - The follow-up October 27, 2022 PSA >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI> >>>>>>>> announced >>>>>>>> it would also be removed at 50% Beta (where M109 Beta was released >>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>> December 1st). This PSA also clarifies that "The goal is to >>>>>>>> continue >>>>>>>> ramping it up on Stable when M109 is released". >>>>>>>> - Lastly we have yesterday's PSA >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/Bxrxr8gw08Y> >>>>>>>> announcing >>>>>>>> that the removal was advanced to 1% Stable which this conversation >>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>> response to. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 9:42 PM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for adding blink-dev, Philipp. CC-ing the API OWNERs as >>>>>>>>>> this seems related to a pattern of breaking changes without Blink >>>>>>>>>> intents >>>>>>>>>> that we've been informed of by customers. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Do I understand correctly that this deprecation is being managed >>>>>>>>>> via Finch for 109 Stable? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, as to minimize risk of breakage the deprecation is managed via >>>>>>>> a Finch flag, which is currently 1% Stable + 50% Canary/Beta. >>>>>>>> To my knowledge, no issues have been reported since the rollout >>>>>>>> started in Canary in November, 2022 or "DEPRECATED_" prefix was added >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> July, 2022. >>>>>>>> This, combined with the fact that apps usually gate on type, is why >>>>>>>> I thought it would be safe to gently roll out further to Stable. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 12:34 AM 'Aaron Boushley' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can you help me understand exactly which objects are being removed >>>>>>>>> here? We rely on `RTCPeerConnection.getStats()` although we pass in a >>>>>>>>> stream selector. We then iterate over the returned stats reports >>>>>>>>> looking >>>>>>>>> for ones containing the values we need. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The selector (be it an RTCRtpSender, RTCRtpReceiver or >>>>>>>> MediaStreamTrack) continues to work, it's just that the report no >>>>>>>> longer >>>>>>>> contains the removed stats objects. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is this a removal of the stats objects that have the fixed ID of >>>>>>>>> "track" and "stream"? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It is the removal of the stats objects where .type == "track" or >>>>>>>> .type == "stream". >>>>>>>> In the spec this refers to dictionaries RTCMediaStreamTrackStats >>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamtrackstats> and >>>>>>>> RTCMediaStreamStats >>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcmediastreamstats> which >>>>>>>> are part of the "Obsolete" section of the spec. See RTCStatsType >>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#rtcstatstype-str*> for >>>>>>>> complete list of stats object types. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regarding the track stats dictionary, the same metrics are still >>>>>>>> available, but you have to look at the non-deprecated locations: >>>>>>>> RTCOutboundRtpStreamStats >>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#outboundrtpstats-dict*> and >>>>>>>> RTCInboundRtpStreamStats >>>>>>>> <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/#dom-rtcinboundrtpstreamstats> >>>>>>>> dictionaries >>>>>>>> instead (type == "outbound-rtp" and type == "inbound-rtp"). See also >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> type "media-source" referenced from outbound-rtp.mediaSourceId. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is there any more documentation I can look at beyond the 2 >>>>>>>>> sentences above? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The spec <https://w3c.github.io/webrtc-stats/> as well as the >>>>>>>> implementation >>>>>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/webrtc/api/stats/rtcstats_objects.h> >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> good resources in general. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Aaron >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2023 at 11:30 AM 'Philipp Hancke' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Henrik, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> while I understand that this has been ongoing for a while in >>>>>>>>>>> Canary >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/R7Mcux9RK6g/m/KG8qe6AEBgAJ> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> and Beta >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/discuss-webrtc/c/9c8ZjberEcI/m/wbdQr77VBQAJ> >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> a while without anyone raising issues, >>>>>>>>>>> the timeline "tomorrow" (with ramp-up) comes as a surprise, in >>>>>>>>>>> particular considering practices like code freezes over the >>>>>>>>>>> holidays. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you explain why you think you don't need an intent to >>>>>>>>>>> deprecate on blink-dev (cc'd)? >>>>>>>>>>> (I agree they should go away but don't see a need for such an >>>>>>>>>>> aggressive timeline) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Am Mo., 9. Jan. 2023 um 10:40 Uhr schrieb Henrik Boström < >>>>>>>>>>> hb...@webrtc.org>: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> With the Stable release of M109 tomorrow, the deprecated >>>>>>>>>>>> "track" and "stream" stats objects returned by >>>>>>>>>>>> RTCPeerConnection.getStats() >>>>>>>>>>>> will no longer be available. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This is unshipped at 1% Stable, but it will soon ramp up >>>>>>>>>>>> further with the goal of 100% unshipped in M109. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "discuss-webrtc" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to discuss-webrt...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/discuss-webrtc/0ebcadca-6d66-4f7c-b7e5-d2ac707a6e84n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/discuss-webrtc/0ebcadca-6d66-4f7c-b7e5-d2ac707a6e84n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJ-vkiyVTH%2BsSNOjv67zx0p7qLra1ePdGJS3JW3GTzfKQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CADxkKiJ-vkiyVTH%2BsSNOjv67zx0p7qLra1ePdGJS3JW3GTzfKQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-api-owners" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-api-owne...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-api-owners/CAA44PQjegbaaorsT_r-iNtUAg2Gxa5f6WohHAaLeGw2tmBW%2BwA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-api-owners/CAA44PQjegbaaorsT_r-iNtUAg2Gxa5f6WohHAaLeGw2tmBW%2BwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Sudheer >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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