Hey folks,
Thanks for driving these improvements and taking Mozilla's feedback
seriously. This seems almost ready to ship a V1 to me, modulo
Yoav's last comment.

Are there current docs somewhere for issuer registration? The chromestatus
entry points to this google doc
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cvUdAmcstH6khLL7OrLde4TnaPaMF1qPp3i-2XR46kU/edit#heading=h.4jz5ms3xrpq1>
that
says it's obsolete and will be updated. I went through the developer docs
<https://developer.chrome.com/en/docs/privacy-sandbox/trust-tokens/>, but
couldn't find anything explaining how someone might act as an issuer.

Thanks,
   Rick

On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 8:31 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thanks Eric!
>
> A couple of issues Martin Thomson filed and I don't think were addressed
> are #232 <https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/issues/232> and #230
> <https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/issues/230>. It'd be good to
> address them in some way.
> I also noticed that a bunch of issues were addressed, but not closed. It
> might make it easier to review if the settled discussions were marked as
> such :)
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 4:31 PM eric trouton <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> We wanted to provide an update after reviewing Mozilla’s feedback and a
>> few rounds of good discussion in the threads.  We are making several small
>> but significant changes based on the suggestions, after which we’d like to
>> launch Private State Tokens in order to support some anti-fraud use cases
>> that are currently using 3rd party cookies, so developers don't turn to
>> fingerprinting as a replacement.  This will also let us benefit from
>> additional feedback in the wild before making final decisions on some of
>> the other suggested changes.  We believe we'll be able to migrate the
>> ecosystem to whichever option we settle on in the final standard (issue
>> #235 <https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/issues/235> explains our
>> rationale and approach for how we’re triaging the feedback and managing
>> potential migrations).
>>
>> We have several specification improvements in flight, which will
>> hopefully address all of the spec concerns raised, and we plan to make the
>> following code changes:
>>
>>    -
>>
>>    Removal Private Metadata Bit from web API (we still intend to keep
>>    the Chromium implementation around to support non-web-visible features; 
>> but
>>    it will no longer be available via the Private State Token API) until the
>>    crypto can be standardized.
>>    -
>>
>>    Update to the current VOPRF version.
>>    -
>>
>>    Add permissions policy for token issuance to match the existing
>>    policy for token redemption.
>>    -
>>
>>    Remove 'type' from the API.
>>
>>
>> We are targeting these changes to land in M114.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric & PST team
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 2:53 PM Mike Taylor <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Whoops, that happened in
>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/780#issuecomment-1422995031
>>> - please ignore. :)
>>> On 4/12/23 2:37 PM, Mike Taylor wrote:
>>>
>>> One other comment, in
>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/414#issuecomment-975743619
>>> - the TAG requested that y'all ping the thread when the spec was more
>>> concrete (or open a new issue). Probably a good time to do so now.
>>> On 4/6/23 11:18 AM, Mike Taylor wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the response, appreciated.
>>> On 4/6/23 10:02 AM, Steven Valdez wrote:
>>>
>>> Re: Supporting multiple crypto versions, there's no real utility beyond
>>> compatibility because particular UAs will only select one of the versions
>>> (based on their preferences), rather than trying to negotiate the crypto
>>> version.
>>>
>>> There's some discussion on standardizing to a RFC version of
>>> privacypass, however for the actual API surface, the PAT API is
>>> primarily triggered via HTTP-Authentication and they haven't seen a strong
>>> need for a JS API to trigger issuance, while for PST we see the other
>>> direction where the JS API is the primary way of triggering it (since its
>>> harder for origins to make server-side changes to their header/challenge
>>> via HTTP auth compared to adding new JS API calls).
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 5, 2023 at 6:33 PM Mike Taylor <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for linking to
>>>> https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/blob/main/PST_VS_PAT.md - it's
>>>> a really useful doc that I missed on my first read of this Intent.
>>>>
>>>> The API OWNERs (Yoav, Alex, Daniel, Philip, myself) were discussing
>>>> this intent today and had some questions that are partially answered by the
>>>> PST_VS_PAT doc. Another question - have there been any discussions with
>>>> Apple on a possible convergence of these APIs? The doc hints at a future
>>>> unification to create a shared API surface for token issuance/redemption.
>>>> On 4/5/23 10:03 AM, 'Steven Valdez' via blink-dev wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Private Access Tokens is roughly based on the Rate Limited privacy pass
>>>> specification (
>>>> https://github.com/ietf-wg-privacypass/draft-ietf-privacypass-rate-limit-tokens/
>>>> ).
>>>>
>>>> It is primarily triggered via HTTP-Authentication headers and doesn't
>>>> have a way of exposing that via a JS API. Developers are expected to have
>>>> endpoints that provide HTTP-Authentication challenges that trigger the OS
>>>> to issue/redeem tokens.
>>>>
>>>> There's a bit of a discussion of the similarities/differences between
>>>> the APIs at
>>>> https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/blob/main/PST_VS_PAT.md.
>>>>
>>>> There's some overlap between the use cases, but for the CAPTCHA use
>>>> case, while the platform-level signal is useful, anti-fraud providers tend
>>>> to want to use additional signals to feed into their decision whether to
>>>> present something like a CAPTCHA, and being able to store the result of
>>>> their distillation of the decision in tokens they issue can be useful.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 5, 2023 at 3:53 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 5:35 PM Steven Valdez <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Contact emails
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Explainer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NB: We'll rename the repository to private-state-token-api when it's
>>>>>> adopted by the antifraud CG.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Specification
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://wicg.github.io/trust-token-api
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Design docs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TNnya6B8pyomDK2F1R9CL3dY10OAmqWlnCxsWyOBDVQ/edit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Summary
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Private State Token API is a new API for propagating user signals
>>>>>> across sites, without using cross-site persistent identifiers like third
>>>>>> party cookies for anti-fraud purposes. Anti-fraud methods that rely on
>>>>>> third party cookies will not work once third party cookies are 
>>>>>> deprecated.
>>>>>> The motivation of this API is to provide a means to fight fraud in a 
>>>>>> world
>>>>>> with no third party cookies. The API prevents cross-site identification 
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> limiting the amount of information stored in a token. Blind signatures
>>>>>> prevent the issuer from linking a token redemption to the identity of the
>>>>>> user in the issuance context.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Private State Token API does not generate or define anti-fraud
>>>>>> signals. This is up to the corresponding first party and the token 
>>>>>> issuers.
>>>>>> The API enforces limits on the information transferred in these signals 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> privacy concerns. Private State Token API is based on the Privacy
>>>>>> Pass protocol from the IETF working group
>>>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/privacypass/about/>. It can be
>>>>>> considered as a web-exposed form of the Privacy Pass protocols.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Private State Token API was formerly known as the Trust Token
>>>>>> API. It is renamed to more accurately reflect its functionality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blink component
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internals>Network>TrustTokens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NB: As a part of the process of renaming the Trust Token API to the
>>>>>> Private State Token API, the blink component will also be renamed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TAG review
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/414
>>>>>> https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/780
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TAG review status
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No concerns, aside from lack of clear interest from other browsers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Risks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We intend to update the underlying cryptographic and token issuance
>>>>>> protocols to align with the eventual Privacy Pass standard. This will
>>>>>> affect compatibility with the small number of token issuers. Private 
>>>>>> State
>>>>>> Token API fetch requests include a token type and version field that
>>>>>> enables backward compatibility while allowing possible extensions for
>>>>>> future token types and versions. While we will have a standard
>>>>>> deprecation path of supporting multiple versions, we expect this to be
>>>>>> easier with this API as each issuer using this API will need to register 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> become an issuer and will provide contact information as part of that
>>>>>> process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gecko: Defer
>>>>>> <https://mozilla.github.io/standards-positions/#trust-token>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WebKit: Pending (
>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/72), already
>>>>>> shipping similar technology
>>>>>> https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=huqjyh7k (see PST vs. PAT
>>>>>> <https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/blob/main/PST_VS_PAT.md>
>>>>>> for more information about the differences in the technologies).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not on you, but do Private-Access-Tokens have something resembling a
>>>>> specification or an explainer, other than marketing material?
>>>>> Do I understand correctly that they are strictly based on
>>>>> protocol-level negotiation, without a JS API? How are developers supposed
>>>>> to interact with them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there overlap between the use-cases? (e.g. I would naively think
>>>>> that CAPTCHA avoidance can rely on either/both OS-level and anti-fraud
>>>>> provider attestation)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Web developers: Positive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A limited set of developers provided feedback on Private State
>>>>>> Tokens, indicating that the tool was valuable for anti-fraud capabilities
>>>>>> while also acknowledging some utility challenges (1). Other developers 
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> found that Private State Tokens provided ability for authentication
>>>>>> purposes (as illustrated by its use in the Privacy Sandbox k-Anonymity
>>>>>> Server) (2).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1:
>>>>>> https://github.com/antifraudcg/meetings/blob/main/2022/yahoo-trust-token.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2:
>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/turtledove/blob/main/FLEDGE_k_anonymity_server.md#abuse-and-invalid-traffic
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other signals:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ergonomics
>>>>>>
>>>>>> N/A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Activation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using this feature requires spinning up a (or partner with an
>>>>>> existing) Private State Token issuer that can issue and verify trust
>>>>>> tokens, which is non-trivial. Verifying properties of the Signed 
>>>>>> Redemption
>>>>>> Record or the client signature requires additional cryptographic
>>>>>> operations. It would be beneficial to have server-side libraries that
>>>>>> developers can use to help make using this API easier. Sample code can be
>>>>>> found at https://github.com/google/libtrusttoken.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Security
>>>>>>
>>>>>> N/A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WebView application risks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, such
>>>>>> that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based applications?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As this feature does not deprecate or change behavior of existing
>>>>>> APIs, we don't anticipate any risk to WebView-based applications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Debuggability
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This API is debuggable via the DevTools Application Data panel and
>>>>>> the operations are exposed in the Network panel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms (Windows,
>>>>>> Mac, Linux, Chrome OS, Android, and Android WebView)?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests
>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes
>>>>>> <https://wpt.fyi/results/trust-tokens?label=experimental&label=master&aligned>*,
>>>>>> some of the tests are currently failing as renaming/API changes in
>>>>>> preparation for shipping these feature haven't propagated to those tests
>>>>>> yet. Additionally, due to the requirements of having a server-side issuer
>>>>>> (with bespoke crypto) to fully test the API, a majority of the testing is
>>>>>> done in wpt_internal with a bespoke python implementation of a PST 
>>>>>> issuer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Flag name
>>>>>>
>>>>>> TrustTokens (in the process of being renamed to PrivateStateTokens)
>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> False
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Non-OSS dependencies
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does the feature depend on any code or APIs outside the Chromium open
>>>>>> source repository and its open-source dependencies to function?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. Token operations are dependent on having the key commitment
>>>>>> information configured. Chrome (and Chromium implementations that consume
>>>>>> components from component updater) supports this via a component, other
>>>>>> clients will need to consume the component or come up with their own 
>>>>>> method
>>>>>> of shipping the key commitment information to the client.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Estimated milestones
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chrome for desktop: 113
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chrome for Android: 113
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Android Webview: 113
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web compat
>>>>>> or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to known github
>>>>>> issues in the project for the feature specification) whose resolution may
>>>>>> introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to naming or structure 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the API in a non-backward-compatible way).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The major feature changes we expect are likely to be around the
>>>>>> versions of tokens we support, as other use cases may need differing
>>>>>> properties from those provided with the initial API and other format/API
>>>>>> changes to align better with standardization and interop (see the 
>>>>>> Interoperability
>>>>>> and Combatibility section up above). Most potentially web-observable
>>>>>> changes in our open issues (
>>>>>> https://github.com/WICG/trust-token-api/issues) are around
>>>>>> ergonomics of using the APIs and ways to use the API in more
>>>>>> locations/manners which should pose minimal compatibility risk to 
>>>>>> existing
>>>>>> users of the API.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5078049450098688
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Intent to prototype:
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/blink-dev/X9sF2uLe9rA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Intent to experiment:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/UIvia1WwIhk/m/stu7iXTWBwAJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Intent to extend origin trial:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/fpfbKgJF8Vc/m/aC8HJfGdDwAJ
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status
>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to [email protected].
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CANduzxCC8T5D9WSrvo0yq7Tu7hdAj-YXLwuOyu2DqqkTRoHQRg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>> an email to [email protected].
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAL5BFfUOedJX%2BHs1kHDRGByLPaTV23nDHUCxzbRqDz81hbO0Jw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>  Steven Valdez |  Chrome Privacy Sandbox |  [email protected] |  
>>>> Cambridge,
>>>> MA
>>>> --
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>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CANduzxBRmxhQ4e_LTK_fDG7e9VKyNCe1EUOmmkkUXmDc02Md_A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>  Steven Valdez |  Chrome Privacy Sandbox |  [email protected] |  Cambridge,
>>> MA
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
>> --
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