@Yoav Weiss (@Shopify) <yoavwe...@chromium.org> does my answer covers your concerns?
On Wed, Oct 9, 2024 at 11:09 PM Domenic Denicola <dome...@chromium.org> wrote: > Thanks for resolving this! LGTM2. > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 3:43 AM Diego González <die...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> 💖 >> >> On Wednesday 9 October 2024 at 17:13:19 UTC+1 Alexis Menard wrote: >> >>> We did resolve this in the spec, my bad. As the FYI the W3C Device and >>> Sensors WG has decided to move this API to CR. >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 9:28 PM Domenic Denicola <dom...@chromium.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> To be clear, I'm OK if the relevant standards body (i.e. the W3C >>>> Devices and Sensors WG) has decided that this does not require a >>>> permissions policy. But I would like it to be resolved one way or another >>>> before we approve this for shipping. Right now it is listed as an open >>>> issue in the spec, and it's one that will be hard to change after >>>> shipping, so per the "Anticipated spec changes" of our I2S template, I'd >>>> like to get that resolved. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2024 at 3:14 AM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's unclear to me that this should have a permission. >>>>> >>>>> LGTM1 >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024, 7:19 AM Alexis Menard <alexis...@intel.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:31 AM Ian Clelland <icle...@chromium.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 7:36 AM Alexis Menard <alexis...@intel.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for your approval. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I can confirm that the API is exposed to iframe through JS and CSS. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Concerning your suggestion I agree that we could put this behind a >>>>>>>> permission policy but unfortunately if the intent is to limit potential >>>>>>>> ephemeral fingerprinting then it will not help at all. In Chromium it's >>>>>>>> easy to gate the JS API behind a permission policy but there is no >>>>>>>> prior >>>>>>>> art of a CSS API being gated behind a permission policy (I may be >>>>>>>> wrong). >>>>>>>> So the iframe CSS code will still be parsed which would not impede >>>>>>>> accessing the posture. Finally one can just use JavaScript to query the >>>>>>>> posture using `matchMedia` so in order for this whole permission to >>>>>>>> truly >>>>>>>> block we would need to patch the CSS engine deep down. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We've never shipped any CSS gating based on permissions policy, but >>>>>>> we have experimented with it; in particular, we've released experimental >>>>>>> policies to restrict the use of animations on properties which affect >>>>>>> layout, and to restrict the values which can be used for the >>>>>>> font-display >>>>>>> property. These have since been removed from the code, as we're not >>>>>>> pursuing those anymore, but the idea of controlling the CSS engine with >>>>>>> permissions policy has been tried. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not sure if the fact that this API is exposed through media >>>>>>> queries makes this more complex, but from a spec perspective, as long as >>>>>>> you can describe the behaviour in terms of what the current document is >>>>>>> "allowed to use", then you should be able to express the right >>>>>>> constraints >>>>>>> to use permissions policy. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting. I'll try to dig the CL just out of curiosity. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had this discussion with the PING and they agreed that we don't >>>>>>>> have any mechanism in place even CSS to support such a thing. There is >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> discussion which started few weeks ago between the PING and CSS WG. I >>>>>>>> believe that in the future this use case could come up for some other >>>>>>>> APIs >>>>>>>> especially when things are exposed through env variables. So unless >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is some idea of a spec or update to permission policy spec I'm not >>>>>>>> sure if >>>>>>>> we should start modifying the CSS engine deeply. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Coming back to this API, to be honest I think the fingerprinting is >>>>>>>> very low risk, ephemeral and is going to be less and less relevant as >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> and more users are using foldables especially in the folded posture >>>>>>>> (remember that any other device including desktop returns the >>>>>>>> continuous >>>>>>>> posture). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024, 12:24 AM Domenic Denicola <dom...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This looks like a really solid spec that has benefited from years >>>>>>>>> of iteration and had good TAG review discussion. The fact that you >>>>>>>>> specified and are working on WebDriver hooks to emulate posture >>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>> during testing, and added DevTools integration, are more great signs >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> maturity. I'm excited to approve this. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The only blocker is that >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/device-posture/issues/111 remains open and >>>>>>>>> changing that after shipping would be a significant change. It sounds >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> your current plan is to expose this information across iframes. Can >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> confirm? If so, are you ready to close that issue and lock in the >>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>> state? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A more conservative plan would be to not expose the information >>>>>>>>> across cross-origin iframes. You could then loosen that in the future, >>>>>>>>> probably by introducing a permissions policy: either with a default >>>>>>>>> allowlist of '*' to get the current behavior (but allow top frames to >>>>>>>>> restrict), or a default allowlist of 'self' to keep the restriction by >>>>>>>>> default (but allow top frames to share). Absent strong use cases for >>>>>>>>> sharing cross-origin by default, that would be my suggestion. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 11:42 PM Alexis Menard <alexis...@intel.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Contact emails alexis...@intel.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Explainer https://github.com/w3c/device-posture >>>>>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/device-posture/#introduction >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Specification https://www.w3.org/TR/device-posture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This API helps developers to detect the current posture of a >>>>>>>>>> foldable device. The device posture is the physical position in >>>>>>>>>> which a >>>>>>>>>> device holds which may be derived from sensors in addition to the >>>>>>>>>> angle. >>>>>>>>>> From enhancing the usability of a website by avoiding the area of a >>>>>>>>>> fold, >>>>>>>>>> to enabling innovative use cases for the web, knowing the posture of >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> device can help developers tailor their content to different devices. >>>>>>>>>> Content can be consumed and browsed even when the device is not >>>>>>>>>> flat, in >>>>>>>>>> which case the developer might want to provide a different layout >>>>>>>>>> for it >>>>>>>>>> depending on the posture state in which the device is being used. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Blink component Blink>FoldableAPIs >>>>>>>>>> <https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=component:Blink%3EFoldableAPIs> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> TAG review https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/575 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> TAG review status Issues addressed >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Gecko*: No signal ( >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/882) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal ( >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/328) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Web developers*: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/device-posture/issues/111#issuecomment-2363251667 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Other signals*: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, >>>>>>>>>> such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based >>>>>>>>>> applications? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Feature is disabled on WebView for now. See >>>>>>>>>> https://issues.chromium.org/issues/335314107 for more details. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Besides the usual DevTools debugging of the CSS and JavaScript >>>>>>>>>> API, a specific device has been added into the Device Emulation mode. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)? >>>>>>>>>> Yes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The API will work on all the platforms but only Android and >>>>>>>>>> Windows will return posture information (other platforms do not have >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> category of devices) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>> ? Yes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The tests aren't complete yet because we need integration with >>>>>>>>>> WebDriver to emulate posture changes. It's being worked on. >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/tree/master/device-posture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Flag name on chrome://flags device-posture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Finch feature name kDevicePosture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Tracking bug >>>>>>>>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1066842 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sample links >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/foldable-devices >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>>>>> Shipping on desktop 131 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial desktop first 125 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial desktop last 128 >>>>>>>>>> DevTrial on desktop 95 >>>>>>>>>> Shipping on Android 131 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial Android first 125 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial Android last 128 >>>>>>>>>> DevTrial on Android 123 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web >>>>>>>>>> compat or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to >>>>>>>>>> known >>>>>>>>>> github issues in the project for the feature specification) whose >>>>>>>>>> resolution may introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to >>>>>>>>>> naming >>>>>>>>>> or structure of the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>>>>>>>> None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5185813744975872?gate=6219681092599808 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions Intent to Prototype: >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/g/blink-dev/c/prHGPxF62i4 >>>>>>>>>> Intent to Experiment: >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/8c244153-79c4-483e-8449-4aca14b35636%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/540e383c-1e1c-4918-9f10-c3fb2dd9bc19%40intel.com >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/540e383c-1e1c-4918-9f10-c3fb2dd9bc19%40intel.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra_U0%3DqYJnDGBM8Zm-yLh7XNT1tA1uKt1a6VzuDBHBdDYA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra_U0%3DqYJnDGBM8Zm-yLh7XNT1tA1uKt1a6VzuDBHBdDYA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOaK9AntwL_dhXaSvEHVAfoisf4fexB_tNTidO9BjqiWUxM2vQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOaK9AntwL_dhXaSvEHVAfoisf4fexB_tNTidO9BjqiWUxM2vQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAK_TSXKv4q4Zj%2B-iDr%3DEbdENuZbdpFqxaaNrqXn6ZgdYX%2BGEXw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAK_TSXKv4q4Zj%2B-iDr%3DEbdENuZbdpFqxaaNrqXn6ZgdYX%2BGEXw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Alexis Menard >>>>>> Software Engineer @ Intel >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOaK9Am-Bas35FSfRbiFBcihOtrHYMMi6J_z7qfyjcMa8VQAqg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOaK9Am-Bas35FSfRbiFBcihOtrHYMMi6J_z7qfyjcMa8VQAqg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra-%2BuPc%3DMCHjad6sMrvp_yn27zVK4DfQJb-9tCv7CXuGfQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra-%2BuPc%3DMCHjad6sMrvp_yn27zVK4DfQJb-9tCv7CXuGfQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alexis Menard >>> Software Engineer @ Intel >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra9O6NvXoTOG0PzKitFxMgPz%3D32JYEZcSvX7hF%3DXnzs_sw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAM0wra9O6NvXoTOG0PzKitFxMgPz%3D32JYEZcSvX7hF%3DXnzs_sw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Alexis Menard Software Engineer @ Intel -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOaK9AnBMizhYHePvyoKWUyPxZ8k%2BWQx7Fj%3DL39Y34DBuxv-5Q%40mail.gmail.com.
