I've dropped the experimentation from the feature name. On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 12:36 PM Mike Taylor <miketa...@chromium.org> wrote:
> Also, can we please update the chromestatus entry title so "WebGPU > Subgroups experimentation" is less confusing on > https://chromestatus.com/roadmap? > On 1/16/25 9:35 AM, Mike Taylor wrote: > > LGTM3 > On 1/16/25 9:31 AM, Yoav Weiss (@Shopify) wrote: > > LGTM2 > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 5:28 PM Chris Harrelson <chris...@chromium.org> > wrote: > >> Great! LGTM1 >> >> On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 8:02 AM 'Alan Baker' via blink-dev < >> blink-dev@chromium.org> wrote: >> >>> We've just merged the spec after it got its final approval. >>> >>> On Wednesday, January 15, 2025 at 11:13:34 AM UTC-5 Chris Harrelson >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Great thanks, sounds like a very useful OT. >>>> >>>> Now we're just waiting for the spec PR to land, since it seems to be >>>> approved. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 7:13 PM 'Alan Baker' via blink-dev < >>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The origin trial resulted in the following findings: >>>>> >>>>> 1. This functionality can achieve the performance improvements we >>>>> expected. Meet integrated the functionality into some of its ML >>>>> shaders. >>>>> Benchmarking subgroups vs integer dot products (previous best) for >>>>> matrix-vector multiply shaders resulted in speed ups of 2.3 - 2.9x >>>>> depending on the device. >>>>> 2. Limits were not the right design choice for subgroup size >>>>> reporting in the API. They have since been moved into GPUAdapterInfo as >>>>> they are really more static properties of a device. >>>>> 3. The initial design contained an extra diagnostic that defaulted >>>>> to an error to increase portability, but was found to hamper the user >>>>> experience more than the value it added. It prevented very common code >>>>> patterns unrelated to the subgroup functionality from compiling >>>>> cleanly. It >>>>> was decided to remove it from the design. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 4:16 PM Chris Harrelson <chri...@chromium.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ok thanks for clarifying that this is shipping and not further >>>>>> experimentation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Could you share the findings from the origin trials? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 11:31 AM 'Alan Baker' via blink-dev < >>>>>> blin...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've filed the standard's position issues (and added to the >>>>>>> feature). Here they are for reference: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Mozilla: >>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/1160 >>>>>>> - WebKit: >>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/446 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The name was a bad choice. I wasn't familiar with this process >>>>>>> initially and only thought of the name with the Origin trial in mind. We >>>>>>> don't consider this an experiment anymore. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 11:31 AM Chris Harrelson < >>>>>>> chri...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> * The spec PR needs to land >>>>>>>> * What do you mean by "experimentation" in the title of this Intent? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 8:30 AM Alex Russell <sligh...@chromium.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hey Alan, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Just for the avoidance of future friction, we try to use the >>>>>>>>> explicit signals systems from Apple and Mozilla because they've asked >>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>> not to use their rep's statements in WGs as assent. Is it possible >>>>>>>>> for you >>>>>>>>> to file those? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Alex >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, January 6, 2025 at 10:48:36 AM UTC-8 Alan Baker wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Contact emails alan...@google.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Explainer >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/blob/main/proposals/subgroups.md >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Specification https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/pull/4963 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Approved by Apple rep, editorial comment by Mozilla rep. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Summary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Adds subgroup functionality to WebGPU. Subgroup operations >>>>>>>>>> perform SIMT operations to provide efficient communication and data >>>>>>>>>> sharing >>>>>>>>>> among groups of invocations. These operations can be used to >>>>>>>>>> accelerate >>>>>>>>>> applications by reducing memory overheads incurred by >>>>>>>>>> inter-invocation >>>>>>>>>> communication. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Blink component Blink>WebGPU >>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.chromium.org/issues?q=customfield1222907:%22Blink%3EWebGPU%22> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> TAG review None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> TAG review status Not applicable >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Origin Trial Name WebGPU Subgroups Features >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Chromium Trial Name WebGPUSubgroupsFeatures >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Origin Trial documentation link >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/gpuweb/gpuweb/blob/main/proposals/subgroups.md >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WebFeature UseCounter name kWebGPUSubgroupsFeatures >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Risks >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Gecko*: No signal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *WebKit*: No signal >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Web developers*: No signals >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Other signals*: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Security >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> None. This feature exposes functionality for operations only >>>>>>>>>> within a single draw/dispatch. Data is contained within a single >>>>>>>>>> users run. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WebView application risks >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does this intent deprecate or change behavior of existing APIs, >>>>>>>>>> such that it has potentially high risk for Android WebView-based >>>>>>>>>> applications? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Debuggability >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> No special debugging is available for this feature as it resides >>>>>>>>>> solely on the GPU. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)? No >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+/main/docs/testing/web_platform_tests.md> >>>>>>>>>> ? No >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Flag name on about://flags None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Finch feature name None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Non-finch justification None >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Requires code in //chrome? False >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Availability expectation Both Apple and Mozilla have indicated >>>>>>>>>> they plan to support this feature in the future. Those >>>>>>>>>> implementations are >>>>>>>>>> catching up to Chrome in terms of core functionality currently. >>>>>>>>>> WebGPU is >>>>>>>>>> part of Safari technical previews and Mozilla nightly builds. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Adoption expectation This feature should have wide adoption for >>>>>>>>>> specific use cases. It is not expected that all WebGPU shaders would >>>>>>>>>> utilize subgroups, but many applications (e.g. ML) could. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Non-OSS dependencies >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Does the feature depend on any code or APIs outside the Chromium >>>>>>>>>> open source repository and its open-source dependencies to function? >>>>>>>>>> No >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Estimated milestones >>>>>>>>>> Shipping on desktop 134 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial desktop first 128 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial desktop last 131 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial extension 1 end milestone 133 >>>>>>>>>> Shipping on Android 134 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial Android first 128 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial Android last 131 >>>>>>>>>> Shipping on WebView 134 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial WebView first 128 >>>>>>>>>> Origin trial WebView last 131 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anticipated spec changes >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Open questions about a feature may be a source of future web >>>>>>>>>> compat or interop issues. Please list open issues (e.g. links to >>>>>>>>>> known >>>>>>>>>> github issues in the project for the feature specification) whose >>>>>>>>>> resolution may introduce web compat/interop risk (e.g., changing to >>>>>>>>>> naming >>>>>>>>>> or structure of the API in a non-backward-compatible way). >>>>>>>>>> Editorial changes only. Future features are likely to build on >>>>>>>>>> top of this extension. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>> https://chromestatus.com/feature/5126409856221184?gate=5073549680443392 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Links to previous Intent discussions Intent to Experiment: >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg%2BrB67gB5gUeDVPaMZ7fZwmeARTUsizs1BTXFXKGpJ%3DpF1TQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> Intent to Extend Experiment 1: >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg%2BrB5jfO13yZGBxMAHRgZX_P0qbixCKSK10SujYkBxftujnQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status >>>>>>>>>> <https://chromestatus.com/>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/1969ee25-f88c-482d-adb1-88846d1d4e64n%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/1969ee25-f88c-482d-adb1-88846d1d4e64n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg%2BrB7yinOiFXX1ud4hLU9Y2F-9w8O1EL4KZ-KTWDOGCt-B2A%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg%2BrB7yinOiFXX1ud4hLU9Y2F-9w8O1EL4KZ-KTWDOGCt-B2A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to blink-dev+...@chromium.org. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg%2BrB5PA7QJku0dWkS2_jXOVC4V6dWAttbF850jEZmKu684Fg%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CABg%2BrB5PA7QJku0dWkS2_jXOVC4V6dWAttbF850jEZmKu684Fg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >>> To view this discussion visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/19c91865-372f-43f8-86c1-484b3856cb58n%40chromium.org >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/19c91865-372f-43f8-86c1-484b3856cb58n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw_%2Bmsmzhau1A-h_2ixJgWgddmdpD33rdQpeHf4BNrSsyg%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOMQ%2Bw_%2Bmsmzhau1A-h_2ixJgWgddmdpD33rdQpeHf4BNrSsyg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to blink-dev+unsubscr...@chromium.org. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOmohSLkSuNRo4PLcXSkKhwzyDYtifA5Ez6js7A6F22CKxrUmA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAOmohSLkSuNRo4PLcXSkKhwzyDYtifA5Ez6js7A6F22CKxrUmA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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