On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:15 PM, Michael Welzl <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think it's about time we finally turn it [ecn] on in the real world. Please start with turning it on as fully as possible on *your* networks. Advocacy with *actual experience* I approve of, otherwise it's just religion and a rathole. I only once been so tempted to shut a thread down on these email lists. (the other time was a near-discussion of systemd) This thread started off usefully discussing the docsis 3.1 deployment and other deployment issues and if I could invoke godwins law on ecn, I would. Hell, let me try that. Only a nazi would inflict such a controversial technology on others without comprehensively trying it themselves on all their own traffic. For years. The ecn debate is a 21 year old bikeshed from hell. There is no comprehensive data from actual deployments. Start with getting some from yours! And from whoever else you can convince to try it, at scale, and not in manifestos that have so far as I can tell, a multiplicity of false premises and wishful thinking, not backed by any operational experience with the actual code available. Go ahead, convince your org(s) to deploy it, get everyone using your network to use it on every operating system available, have meet ups for every new student entering your uni to turn it on, have a black hat take the existing aqm algs apart, and then write a document describing those experiences. *Then* write the rfc. *I* deployed it. I gave my feedback already. My conclusions 3 years back were: 1) ECN is safe to deploy given the bottleneck links had fq + aqm w/ecn, and the links were high enough bandwidth to not slow other traffic. But at lower rates, it clears congestion fastest, and uses less memory, to drop packets. 2) It might be safe in limited well controlled environments (e.g. in data center, and especially in long RTT environements in space or satellites), but a wide range of testing on actual traffic mixes on things like DCTCP - and what happens when things like DCTCP accidentally escape the datacenter needs to also be carefully evaluated. 3) It is not safe to deploy on the wild and wooly internet with any of the pure aqm algorithms currently available. I have seen no data to come close to challenging these conclusions, nor tests, nor deployments, and until that happens... ...In addition to getting off the aqm mailing list, I am now sending anything I get with the evil " ecn " in it directly to /dev/null - until prague or I get way better BP meds. I got way better things to do. -- Dave Täht Let's make wifi fast, less jittery and reliable again! https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/TVX3o84jjmb _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list [email protected] https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
