Too many people are also discounting the extra RTTs SSL negotiation
takes, and you got a couple other things wrong here.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 7:19 AM, Bill Ver Steeg (versteb)
<[email protected]> wrote:
> The other area in which throughput suffers is when one tries to do bunch of 
> small transactions on a congested link. Think of a web page that does a 
> series of HTTP gets of small pieces of data (let's say each object is about 
> 10 packets in size). Let's say the gets are from different HTTP servers. The 
> client has do a bunch of DNS resolutions (3+ RTT each),

DNS is usually a 10-20ms or shorter RTT to the ISP, and on a cache
hit, under 16ms on cheap hardware, locally.

namebench is a pretty good tool for looking at what it takes to
resolve DNS, and also of late I have been trying to get good
measurements of DNSSEC w/edns0 (which is looking very poor)

I would like it if WAY more people took a hard look at DNS traffic
characteristics, and I wasn't.

>open a bunch of TCP sessions (3+ RTT each),

+ SSL neg

>send a bunch of HTTP gets (1RTT each) and get the data (~2 RTT for the 10 
>packets), then close each session (4+ RTT). So that is about 15 RTTs per JPEG.

Historically connection close is transparent to the application. I
recall at least one ad service provider that actually ignored the
complex close state entirely and just blasted the data out, attempted
a close, and moved on.

Also the first real data packet contains the header info for the jpeg
which helps the web reflow engine.

So I would not count close as part of your calculations.

>For discussion, let's say the client fetches them sequentially rather than in 
>parallel.

>I know, SPDY does this better - buts let's say this is a legacy client, or 
>let's say that there are interdependencies and you have to fetch them 
>sequentially.
>
> Let's compare the time it takes to display the web pages on a link with 50 ms 
> of delay (20 ms speed of light and 30 ms of buffering) to the time it takes 
> to display the web pages on  a link with 200 ms of delay (20 ms speed of 
> light and 30 ms of buffering). So, we have 300 RTTs before we display the 
> completed web page. 300 * 50ms == 1.5 seconds. 300 * 200ms = 6 seconds. If we 
> were to use a "big buffer tail drop" example with 2 second RTTs, we would get 
> 10 minutes to show the page.
>
> As we all know, there is a lot of work on the client/server to make web 
> surfing better. IW10, SPDY, pacing and the like all aim to reduce the number 
> of RTTs. The buffer management algorithms aim to reduce the RTTs. They work 
> together to provide better throughput when mice travers a congested link.
>
>
> Bill VerSteeg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] 
> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Toke 
> Høiland-Jørgensen
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:01 AM
> To: Paolo Valente
> Cc: bloat
> Subject: Re: [Bloat] bufferbloat effects on throughput
>
> Paolo Valente <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> One question: how can one be sure (if it is possible) that the
>> fluctuation of the throughput of a TCP flow on a given node is caused
>> by bufferbloat issues in the node, and not by other factors (such as,
>> e.g., systematic drops in some other nodes along the path followed by
>> the flow, with the drops possibly even caused by different reasons
>> than bufferbloat)?
>
> You can't, and it might. However, if you measure a performance degradation 
> that goes away when the link is idle, consider that a hint... :)
>
> -Toke
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-- 
Dave Täht
Open Networking needs **Open Source Hardware**

https://plus.google.com/u/0/+EricRaymond/posts/JqxCe2pFr67
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