Brilliant demo. :)
But I'm afraid the "learn tcp" part works more as a refresher than an introduction. Remember this is the first meeting with an ack for most of my co workers. To get the proper understanding I think the basics must be more hammered into them. -Erik ________________________________ Fra: Dave Taht <[email protected]> Sendt: onsdag 26. mai 2021 20.09.44 Til: Taraldsen Erik Kopi: Erik Auerswald; bloat Emne: Re: [Bloat] Educate colleges on tcp vs udp I thought I did a good demo of ack behavior in this apnic video... https://blog.apnic.net/2020/01/22/bufferbloat-may-be-solved-but-its-not-over-yet/ On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 1:38 AM Taraldsen Erik <[email protected]> wrote: > > Not a brilliant idea on my part to send a question to the list just hours > before I go on a multiday trip without email access. So this is a group > thank you for all the responses - off and on list. I'll need some time to > review the response. > > > > -Erik > > ________________________________ > Fra: Erik Auerswald <[email protected]> > Sendt: mandag 24. mai 2021 20.51.07 > Til: Taraldsen Erik; bloat > Emne: Re: [Bloat] Educate colleges on tcp vs udp > > Hi Erik, > > On 21.05.21 08:01, Taraldsen Erik wrote: > > I'm getting some traction with my colleges in the Mobile department on > > measurements to to say something about user experience. While they are > > coming around to the idea, they have major gaps in tcp/udp/ip > > understanding. I don't have the skill or will to try and educate them. > > > > > > Is there good education out there - preferably in the form of an video - > > which I can send to my co workers? The part of tcp using ack's is pure > > magic to them. They really struggle to grasp the concept. With so basic > > lack of understanding it is hard to have a meaningful discussion about > > loss, latency an buffering. > > You could take a look at: > > "Video Notes: Tanenbaum, Wetherall Computer Networks 5e" > > https://media.pearsoncmg.com/ph/streaming/esm/tanenbaum5e_videonotes/tanenbaum_videoNotes.html > > Specifically the sections "Transport Layer, Reliable Transport" > and "Congestion Control." > > For reading material I can recommend "The TCP/IP Guide" > http://www.tcpipguide.com/ . > > You can find a curated list of freely available networking > (i.e., packet switching and TCP/IP) textbooks in the section > "Textbooks and Other Books You Should Read" of the "How > Networks Really Work" webinars from Ivan Pepelnjak: > > https://my.ipspace.net/bin/list?id=Net101#TEXTBOOK > > > I don't mean to talk them down to much, they are really good with the radio > > part of their job - but the transition into seeing tcp and radio together > > is very hard on them. > > Packet switching, and the transport services built on top, > e.g., TCP, are different from other information transport > systems. They have evolved over decades and have become > quite complex, with surprising interactions (e.g., bufferbloat). > > IP data over mobile networks is even more complex, and it > differs for the different mobile network generations. > > Thus I do not think one should expect to really understand > it immediately. Jumping right into the middle with TCP ACKs, > used for both reliability and flow control, and as part of > the congestion control scheme used on the Internet, without > looking at the fundamentals first, seems quite hard. > > My advice, if I may, would be to view IP/TCP as something > new to your colleagues. It would seem advisable to me to > start by learning the fundamentals. This would most probably > require quite some time, though. > > After achieving some confidence regarding the fundamentals, > I recommend taking a look at the four links from: > https://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~auerswal/networkers_essential_reading/ > (especially the paper "End-to-End Arguments in System Design" > http://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/endtoend/endtoend.pdf). > > HTH, > Erik > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat -- Latest Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6791014284936785920/ Dave Täht CTO, TekLibre, LLC
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