Hi David,

Thanks!

> On Jul 12, 2022, at 19:56, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2022, Sebastian Moeller via Bloat wrote:
> 
>>>>> There are plenty of useful things that they can do and yes, I personally 
>>>>> think they’re the way of the future - but **not** in their current form, 
>>>>> where they must “lie” to TCP, cause ossification,
>>>> 
>>>>    [SM] Here I happily agree, if we can get the nagative side-effects 
>>>> removed that would be great, however is that actually feasible or just 
>>>> desirable?
>>>>> etc. PEPs have never been considered as part of the congestion control 
>>>>> design - when they came on the scene, in the IETF, they were despised for 
>>>>> breaking the architecture, and then all the trouble with how they need to 
>>>>> play tricks was discovered (spoofing IP addresses, making assumptions 
>>>>> about header fields, and whatnot). That doesn’t mean that a very 
>>>>> different kind of PEP - one which is authenticated and speaks an 
>>>>> agreed-upon protocol - couldn’t be a good solution.
>>>> 
>>>>    [SM] Again, I agree it could in theory especially if well-architected. 
>>> That’s what I’m advocating.
>> 
>>      [SM] Well, can you give an example of an existing well-architected PEP 
>> as proof of principle?
> 
> the windows protocols work very poorly over high latency links (i.e. long 
> distance links) and the PEPs that short circuit those protocols make life 
> much nicer for users as well as reducing network traffic.

        [SM] Windows protocols, like in microsoft's server message block (smb) 
protocol or as in "protocols using data windows", like TCP's congestion and 
receive window?

> it's a nasty protocol to start with, but it's the reality on the ground and 
> proxies do help a lot.

        [SM] Are such proxies located in third party middle boxes/proxies or 
are these part of microsoft's software suite for enterprises (assuming the 
first as answer to my question)?

> David Lang


Regards
        Sebastian
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