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[EMAIL PROTECTED] Today's topics: * BM's vision of casteless society - 5 messages, 5 authors http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/a0a44ff9b26b9220?hl=en ============================================================================== TOPIC: BM's vision of casteless society http://groups.google.com/group/BM_discussion/browse_thread/thread/a0a44ff9b26b9220?hl=en ============================================================================== == 1 of 5 == Date: Thurs, Apr 12 2007 2:22 pm From: "p" Some additional thoughts take it from me, a brahman is the one who thinks and seeks brahamam, it is obtained by initiation and not by birth; if you think one gets by brith it is not so, but by birth one gets the initiation naturally if his/her parents have inquested I see in abstract sense the meaning to caste as nothing but aspirations of group-ism and its protocols; on the outset, I do not go for caste based ills To be very frank, at school, in gurukul, we even do not know much about others caste; we did not have the perils of outside world What helped me most is the atman concept; this is much more superior concept than what is generally understood of brahaman; it is the end of a search of a saint's saying Abijit, we may not differ, although we use different words/styles Ps: there was a senior friend whose name was maitra from Bengal, I think maitra means son or the like; his face was so familiar to me(including mannerism), I thought, their ancestors would have migrated towards north-east and ours towards south-east Only recently, one of my theories got defeated: I have been think that we giggle if someone touches the sides of our abdomen, because we know we are no longer monekys; only monkey babies hold that part to stick to its mothers while walking and jumping! So, next time, if somebody says his caste, may be we will laugh ( I saw few weeks back a chimp giggling when another chimp was tickling the sides of its abdomen)! On Apr 4, 12:04 am, "Abhijit K" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Puru, > > I would like to comment on some of the issues that you have raised. > > On 3/28/07, p <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Dear All, > > I am always fond of the title "Pillai", it means the son; the famous > > Tamil movie "Engal Veetu Pillai", "Our Son" who serves the nation, > > country, village etc... in that sens I am fond of this title > > Thats good. > > > > > Pillai does not caste any aspiration on castesim as I have understood; > > even our caste name, easily helped me to identify where from we came > > from and when I was in Nashi, I used to say we were tribes here once > > upon a time; my mothers name is anjalai which goes very close to > > anjani, the mother of anuman.. > > I have no idea about the origin and meaning of "pillai" since I am > from maharashtra, may be some other people from southern states can > throw more light on that. > > > I understand castesim is nothing diffrent from groupsim; even the way > > we form groups engineers, doctors, or even mechanical and electrial > > engineers have such use to that extend in identifying; perhaps, the > > problems by over doing or mis-using is condemnable > > That is where I disagree. > > Caste system is a "social hierarchy" based on "BIRTH" !!!. Somebody is > labeled a caste, by birth.. and unlike religion which can be changed.. > caste is forever.. because it is not about "way of life" ... but a > person's place in the societal hierarchy !! > > I don't see any rational argument that can refute the above said > thing. Anything that discriminates persons as "lower and higher" by > birth is inhuman. > > Other types of groupism are created by people by their own deeds. So > casteism is a different issue. > > > while at school, our school has facility for anyone to become a > > brahman; our teachers advised me not to go for as I would lose the > > education benefits available to me; this is the problem; caste has > > been a tool for easy identification so far the backward people; have > > I dont understand you. Do u mean that only backward castes use the > caste. You are SO WRONG. Perhaps you were born in a > so-called-high-caste .. so no so-called-upper-caste person ever > bothered to pain you on that ! ... > > Dear brother, the country is full of people taking PRIDE in the caste > and KILLING people in the name of caste. > > Caste is an evil that has haunted this country for ages. > > We are set to fight this evil ! > > > we done the uplifting all the basckward and most backward and the lot, > > both in terms of social and economical; once a up-rising socity is > > built up, the cast system on its own will die out, a new system of > > groupis > > I dont agree here either. > > Yes, profession based division of society will exist.. but that will > be by choice.. people can choose their professions in an equal > opportuniteis society... but CASTE, by definition is "by birth". > > The word "caste" comes from portuguese word "casta" which means lineage !! > > > > > my suggestion is that we eradicate the evils of groupism and casteism; > > then our efforts will result in better outcomes. > > well taken. Lets start with the birth based casteism first. > > > A Gandhian asked me why do I still have a caste indicator, although a > > title name , attached to me email, it was interesting that the sign-up > > facilitates such names based on second and third names.. > > Apart from the above, the other possibility is inter caste marriages > > > in a very large scale should take place , even across States > > YES. > > BUt they should not be called "inter-caste" marriages. They should be > called "casteless" marriages ! > > "inter-caste" indicates "acceptance" of caste. We, in BM must not > accept caste, as it is against our core ideology and against humanity. > > > It was bit strange that yesterday I had been to tribes habitations > > very close to Chennai. I happened to ask them how do they identify > > that a person is from their tribe; they are almost lost in identifying > > them that any new person can creep in to take advantage of the Tribe > > concessions; may be for this reason, officers are not easily declaring > > a person as a Tribe > > As I hailed from a rural place, I know that people can migrate from > > one community to other, we have pro-verbs also to indicate. > > Now, BM, will it become another community of people or caste of people > > or group of people will depend how you freely network other people > > outside BM; I find already BM has creted some barriers in the name of > > organizational set-up; it will be a struggle for members of the group > > to stay away from groupism or casteism; by the by, how many female > > I'm sorry, I do not understand you here. May be you can explain it better. > > > members are there in BM group; we should try to have atleast 40% > > FEMALES, to make any difference; we should also have appreciable youth > > in the group, in fact, I think so , except for few like me > > Hmm... Lets not differentiate. Lets welcome all people in BM.. and > ideally we will have % of women proportional to india's sex ratio > (atleast !) .. > > regards, > abhijit k > pune. > > -- > Abhijit A. Meenakshi > About my > name:www.geocities.com/abhijit1303/aboutname.txtwww.bharatudaymission.org == 2 of 5 == Date: Fri, Apr 13 2007 9:54 am From: "Milind Kotwal" Dear friends, Caste system can only be broken by 1. Inter-caste marriages, and 2. Improvement in living standard across the social spectrum. All other are actions can just be symbolic. Milind -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of p Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:52 PM To: BM_discussion Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: BM's vision of casteless society Some additional thoughts take it from me, a brahman is the one who thinks and seeks brahamam, it is obtained by initiation and not by birth; if you think one gets by brith it is not so, but by birth one gets the initiation naturally if his/her parents have inquested I see in abstract sense the meaning to caste as nothing but aspirations of group-ism and its protocols; on the outset, I do not go for caste based ills == 3 of 5 == Date: Fri, Apr 13 2007 11:59 am From: Vinay Yadav Hi Milind, > Caste system can only be broken by 1. Inter-caste marriages, and 2. > Improvement in living standard across the social spectrum. All other are > actions can just be symbolic. I may be wrong here. I am Vinay Yadav, and i come under OBC, and have been classified as EBC (Econimical Backward Class) - though my father is a senior scientist in IIT, and i run my own software business. The backward classes has been fed with hatred against upper cast people over these years. Dr Ambedkar fought for their rights - but present day leaders are distorting his views/thoughts and presenting in a very negative manner. The most educated backward class people are more negative minded than the uneducated backwards. The foolish reason given " You, Brahmin tortured us for 4000 years, now its our turn" - Recently when SC stayed OBC quota case, on a program in Aaj Tak, some backward leader uttered this same. A brahmin from poor family asked a question "Being from Brahmin family, my father is a poor farmer, how do i progress" - the answer was "You brahmin destroyed us for 4000 years, this is results of that" I did not know this caste system till i was in 10th. While filling the form for board exam - i was asked what caste i belong - SC/SC/general. I was not aware of this - i went home asked dad as what was that and how this is going to matter in my education. It was tough for me digest this. but i had to. If we need to root out this, these steps should be taken: 1) Free education till 12th (at tax payer's expense) 2) Remove the option for Caste/Religion from education forms/bank forms/company forms/eveywhere Saying is always easiest option, than doing - i have been thinking as how can this be achieved - but for it seems impossible task. Any thoughts? -- Regards Vinay http://www.vinayras.com - PHP Application Developers ---------------------------------------------------- http://www.nagpurpulse.com - The Pulse of Nagpur http://www.scizoom.com - The Science Zoomer (Science Blog) http://www.indialandsale.com - India's First Real Estate Blogging site http://www.vinras.com - Web Hosting Solutions http://www.vinayras.co.in/our_websites - Complete list of websites from vinayRas == 4 of 5 == Date: Thurs, Apr 12 2007 11:24 pm From: BhanuPrakash Singh Dear friends, Caste system is perpetuated by various laws of the country such as caste based reservation, religion based special laws ect.. The leadership enforces the divisios for votes and to rule the country. There is crying need to have uniform law for all citizens irrespective of caste, religion, economic status. Bhanuprakash singh --- Milind Kotwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear friends, > > Caste system can only be broken by 1. Inter-caste > marriages, and 2. > Improvement in living standard across the social > spectrum. All other are > actions can just be symbolic. > > Milind > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of p > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:52 PM > To: BM_discussion > Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: BM's vision of > casteless society > > > Some additional thoughts > take it from me, a brahman is the one who thinks and > seeks brahamam, > it is obtained by initiation and not by birth; if > you think one gets > by brith it is not so, but by birth one gets the > initiation naturally > if his/her parents have inquested > I see in abstract sense the meaning to caste as > nothing but > aspirations of group-ism and its protocols; on the > outset, I do not go > for caste based ills > > > > > Bhanuprakash Singh, B.E.(Hons.),FIE(India) Chief Mechanical Engineer(Retd.) Indian Railways, H 243,Bagmugalia Extension,Laharpur Bhopal M.P. Phone 0091755 2480886 mob 0091 9425600275 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com == 5 of 5 == Date: Fri, Apr 13 2007 11:58 am From: satya very true... totally agree ... but would to add onthing more... 3. mind set of people On 4/13/07, Milind Kotwal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > Caste system can only be broken by 1. Inter-caste marriages, and 2. > Improvement in living standard across the social spectrum. All other are > actions can just be symbolic. > > Milind > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of p > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:52 PM > To: BM_discussion > Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: BM's vision of casteless society > > > Some additional thoughts > take it from me, a brahman is the one who thinks and seeks brahamam, > it is obtained by initiation and not by birth; if you think one gets > by brith it is not so, but by birth one gets the initiation naturally > if his/her parents have inquested > I see in abstract sense the meaning to caste as nothing but > aspirations of group-ism and its protocols; on the outset, I do not go > for caste based ills > > > > > -- "|| bRaHmAiVa sAtYaM ||" ============================================================================== You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BM_discussion" group. 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