[uucdigest] Wednesday, March 12 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6210
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members [uuc] Re: automanual Re: [uuc] Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members Re: [uuc] Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members Re: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members [uuc] Speaking of Driving Events.. Re: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members [uuc] Saw in the Bay Re: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:52:51 -0500 From: Kathy Lyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members The IRS has rules that apply to social clubs. One is that a club is organized to serve its members, and that the amount of income it takes in from non-members must be limited. In general terms member income must be at least 85% of gross revenues; non-member income less than 15%. If the non-member limit is exceeded the club is subject to corporate income tax on the pro-rata portion of its net income earned from non-members. Because each BMW CCA (and PCA, SCCA, etc.) chapter is separately incorporated each is its own "club" for purposes of the non-member revenues test. There are several SCCA regions under audit right now on this issue; no doubt there is a program underway in the IRS to look at social clubs. For that reason chapters deem it best to make sure that all attendees at their events are chapter members so there will be little to no non-member income (consider that newsletter advertisers and event sponsors may also come under the non-member classification). So don't begrudge the chapter the $13.50 you must pay to be a chapter member; your chapter will be imposing the same fee on others who attend its events. Kathy > > There seems to be a change slowly taking place where only chapter members > are allowed to signup for DE events. The following is a reply from a DE > organizer to an inquiry by a fellow DE participant. For someone who goes > around the country enjoying different tracks each year, this is an added cost > to each DE event. That is not considering the P-club events that I plan on > particpating. > > > > Personally, I do not mind paying for chapter membership when I'm accepted > for the DE event. Can someone who had similar experience care to comment on > this? - -- Kathryn M. Lyle, CPA, CVA Lyle & Associates CPA www.lylecpa.com Creating Business Value ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:12:44 -0600 From: "Scott Staewen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: automanual Hey, I represent that remark! >I retract my statement about wives and automatics. How about teenagers? > Scott Staewen wife can shift but prefers a cushy lexus son would probably take the train, if we had one. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:19:45 -0600 From: Robert Phelan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members Yes, unfortunately the IRS rules for non-profits state that some minimum sum of the chapter's total income must come from CHAPTER members. Since DE's are often the biggest income a chapter has, the non-profit could lose its tax-exempt status if it were audited. This is not new, however, as Bluegrass Bimmers and others have been doing it for almost 2 years now. If my recollection of our last board meeting is any indication, the St. Louis chapter will soon be following suit. Most chapters either incorporate the cost into the DE fee or add it as a separate item on the registration form. Unless we can get the IRS to change the way it looks at things, this small fee is going to become a regular thing. But, if you think of it, it's only about 13 dollars/track/year. So if you went to Putnam Park 4 times in a year, you'd only have to pay the 13.50$ premium once. And besides, you get to get a bunch of newsletters with neat stories/pictures :) Robert Phelan Board Member St. Louis BMW Club - -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:25:15 -0500 From: "Dave Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members Doesn't make any sense to me. If you are a BMWCCA member, what difference does it make what chapter you assigned to? Of course, I respect the right of chapters to accept local chapter members before other chapter or non BMWCCA members. I haven't seen this policy reach the Southeastern chapters yet, and I hope I don't. Dave Kelley 98 M3/4 > > There seems to be a change slowly taking place where only chapter members are > allowed to signup for DE events. The following is a reply from a DE organizer to an > inquiry by a fellow DE participant. For someone who goes around the country enjoying > different tracks each year, this is an added cost to each DE event. That is not considering the P-club events that I plan on participating. > > Personally, I do not mind paying for chapter membership when I'm accepted for the DE > event. Can someone who had similar experience care to comment on this? > > Will > > > > Sorry it's not a misprint. The situation with the "membership rule" is > driven by recent IRS problems with SCCA and other clubs where the > organizations entire income for many years becomes taxable due to > benefits and income from non members. Since BMW CCA is organized in > chapters the IRS looks at these independent organizations. Our club > looked to national for guidance and the best protection for the club is > to have all participants become members of the chapter if they have > significant income (gross) associated with them. I just return from > the > National BMW Driving Events Conference and the topic was discussed at > length. In the past many chapters did not require membership. Going > forward most if not all will. I don't like it but I accept its part of > the changing world we live in. > > I sincerely hope you will join us, if you're a member of the BMW CCA > (northstar chapter) you can join other chapters for 13.50 a year. You > get only one roundel but will be invited to all chapter events and get > the chapter newsletters. I am currently a member or two chapters > myself. And will likely be a Audi and PCA member soon due to my > participation in schools for these clubs. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:44:21 -0500 From: "Dave Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members Kathy, Are we confusing "revenue", "income" and "profit". In your example, I don't think anyone would be paying taxes on revenue or income as you state it, they would be paying taxes on profit. Kathy, Gee, our chapters around here have hard time breaking even much less make an 85% profit (income?) on gross revenues! <G> Dave Kelley, MBA President, Dynamic Software, Inc. http://www.dynamic-sw.com > The IRS has rules that apply to social clubs. One is that a club is > organized to serve its members, and that the amount of income it takes > in from non-members must be limited. In general terms member income > must be at least 85% of gross revenues; non-member income less than > 15%. If the non-member limit is exceeded the club is subject to > corporate income tax on the pro-rata portion of its net income earned > from non-members. > > Because each BMW CCA (and PCA, SCCA, etc.) chapter is separately > incorporated each is its own "club" for purposes of the non-member > revenues test. There are several SCCA regions under audit right now on > this issue; no doubt there is a program underway in the IRS to look at > social clubs. For that reason chapters deem it best to make sure that > all attendees at their events are chapter members so there will be > little to no non-member income (consider that newsletter advertisers and > event sponsors may also come under the non-member classification). So > don't begrudge the chapter the $13.50 you must pay to be a chapter > member; your chapter will be imposing the same fee on others who attend > its events. > > Kathy > > > > There seems to be a change slowly taking place where only chapter members > > are allowed to signup for DE events. The following is a reply from a DE > > organizer to an inquiry by a fellow DE participant. For someone who goes > > around the country enjoying different tracks each year, this is an added cost > > to each DE event. That is not considering the P-club events that I plan on > > particpating. > > > > > > Personally, I do not mind paying for chapter membership when I'm accepted > > for the DE event. Can someone who had similar experience care to comment on > > this? > > -- > Kathryn M. Lyle, CPA, CVA > Lyle & Associates CPA > www.lylecpa.com > Creating Business Value > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Speaking of Driving Events.. This will likely open a big can of worms but..In the post regarding why DE participants must join chapters there was a comment that the events are profit-making. I do understand that the profits from the DE's fund a lot of other activities of the chapter. However, I noticed recently that BMWCCA schools, at least in my area, aren't filling up and are being opened to other groups and organizations. I believe one reason for this is that BMWCCA DE's are now on relatively expensive and the economy has affected participation in track events across the board. BMWCCA events are definitely one of the most well-organized DE's and where I earned my stripes before moving on to other events. However, I fear they will price themselves out of the market. I would like to run them more regularly, or at least a few times a year, but I won't do it if it is 40% more expensive for the same track time. This is an issue that needs to be addressed if the Club wants BMW driving schools to be the primary feeder for future club racers. I don't know enough about the finances to offer solutions but I do believe that, at least here in Northern California, something must be done if we want to see 100% BMW's at driving schools. Kevin Kelly (yes, I am a cheap b*s*d when it comes to track time) '91 M5 '00 323iT __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:40:08 -0500 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members She said income. Not profit. There is, as you know, a difference. The law states that at least 85% of the club's INCOME has to come from members. As it's a not for profit operation, it's not likely that the IRS would be looking to tax profit..... - ----------------------------------------------------- BMW Special Tool Rentals Pay per incident tech support - ----------------------------------------------------- Brett Anderson KMS (440) 338 1650 www.koalamotorsport.com OSS committee member - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members > Kathy, > > Are we confusing "revenue", "income" and "profit". In your example, I don't think anyone would be > paying taxes on revenue or income as you state it, they would be paying taxes on profit. Kathy, > > Gee, our chapters around here have hard time breaking even much less make an 85% profit > (income?) on gross revenues! <G> > > Dave Kelley, MBA > President, Dynamic Software, Inc. > http://www.dynamic-sw.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:08:21 -0800 (PST) From: Kyle Sanchez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Saw in the Bay Not mine. But very interesting to say the least. Anyone live in CT look at this? <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2406940767&category=6007> Kyle __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online http://webhosting.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:23:24 -0500 From: "Dave Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members My point exactly... since there is not likely a profit, the issue of paying taxes on the "profit" becomes almost mute! Dave Kelley > She said income. Not profit. There is, as you know, a difference. > > The law states that at least 85% of the club's INCOME has to come from > members. As it's a not for profit operation, it's not likely that the IRS > would be looking to tax profit..... > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > BMW Special Tool Rentals > Pay per incident tech support > ----------------------------------------------------- > Brett Anderson > KMS > (440) 338 1650 > www.koalamotorsport.com > > OSS committee member > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 2:44 PM > Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Restriction on DE events for non-chapter members > > > > Kathy, > > > > Are we confusing "revenue", "income" and "profit". In your example, I don't > think anyone would be > > paying taxes on revenue or income as you state it, they would be paying > taxes on profit. Kathy, > > > > Gee, our chapters around here have hard time breaking even much less make an > 85% profit > > (income?) on gross revenues! <G> > > > > Dave Kelley, MBA > > President, Dynamic Software, Inc. > > http://www.dynamic-sw.com > > > > > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6210 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | UUC Motorwerks . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________
