[uucdigest] Thursday, June 19 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6485
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Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] RE: Feeler guage [uuc] <E30> Wheel questions [uuc] Re: air filter advice needed RE: [uuc] <E30> Wheel questions Re: [uuc] Re: air filter advice needed [uuc] re: changing brake bias Re: [uuc] <E30> Wheel questions [uuc] Re: installing gauges in an E30 Re: [uuc] Brake upgrades for E34 525 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:47:09 -0700 From: "Brant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] RE: Feeler guage SnapOn sell excellent feeler gauges. But the stuff from Sears works too. Brant <<<<<From: "KKiely" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Feeler guage Anyone know a good source for quality feeler guages? I'm thinking mine have seen better days after use with spark plugs and I don't recall where I got them. I'd like to do a valve adjust on on M30 motor this weekend (12 thousanths). - - -Kevin>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 12:37:58 -0400 From: John Sabatini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <E30> Wheel questions Looking to get some new wheels in the near future. I want to get 16" wheels but am curious if there are any pro and cons between 15" wheels and 16" wheels. The car is my daily driver as well as track car. I am an instructor with both BMW CCA and PCA, with my primary tracks being Sebring, Moroso, and Road Atlanta. I like the 5 or 6 spoke wheels and would like any feedback or recommendations on the following. I really like the SSR Competition wheels, but at over $1,200, I wish I could find something less expensive. The only other wheels I have found seem to be too cheap. They are as follows: ASA JS1 (licensed by BBS, but only $100 per wheel) Kosei K1 Sport Edition Fox 2 Mille Miglia MM11-2 Thanks in advance, John Sabatini '90 325is ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 09:55:08 -0700 (PDT) From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: air filter advice needed On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Ben Dixon wrote: > Can somebody tell me where to find the site that compares K & N > air filters with stock ones. I know it's on the net but that is > all I know. Thanks, Ben Dixon There's probably more than one. Here's mine: http://www.bolhuijo.com/airflowtest/index.html - -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:08:29 -0400 From: "Money, Jack (J.J.)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] <E30> Wheel questions Personally I think the Kosei's are ugly as sh!t but they're light, easy to clean, and cheap. I ran these exclusively on my car when it was JS. Recently I had the opportunity to run them in 17" but since I've already purchased 3 sets of other wheels I passed on it. For the money and weight, I think the Kosei's are hard to beat...even though they're ugly! Never heard of the ASA's but sounds interesting. Jack Money '89 325iX...I like the stock 15" #86 JP M3...17" for brake clearance, more tire Elephant Motorsports - -----Original Message----- From: John Sabatini [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 12:38 PM To: BMW UUC Digest ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: [uuc] <E30> Wheel questions Looking to get some new wheels in the near future. I want to get 16" wheels but am curious if there are any pro and cons between 15" wheels and 16" wheels. The car is my daily driver as well as track car. I am an instructor with both BMW CCA and PCA, with my primary tracks being Sebring, Moroso, and Road Atlanta. I like the 5 or 6 spoke wheels and would like any feedback or recommendations on the following. I really like the SSR Competition wheels, but at over $1,200, I wish I could find something less expensive. The only other wheels I have found seem to be too cheap. They are as follows: ASA JS1 (licensed by BBS, but only $100 per wheel) Kosei K1 Sport Edition Fox 2 Mille Miglia MM11-2 Thanks in advance, John Sabatini '90 325is ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:19:25 -0400 From: "James Moran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: air filter advice needed Here's some more: http://www.seansa4page.com/resource/airfilter.html http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/engine/e36_m3_air_filter_tests.html http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Upgrade/Air_filter.htm (with K&N rebuttal) Jim Moran '88 M6 From: "John Bolhuis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > On Wed, 18 Jun 2003, Ben Dixon wrote: > > > Can somebody tell me where to find the site that compares K & N > > air filters with stock ones. I know it's on the net but that is > > all I know. Thanks, Ben Dixon > > There's probably more than one. Here's mine: > > http://www.bolhuijo.com/airflowtest/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:05:24 -0700 From: jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] re: changing brake bias re: changing brake bias: Here are two low tech ways I've altered brake bias to get more braking force to the rear or less to the front, when prepping BMWs for stock or street prepared autocross without violating class rules. If trailing throttle oversteer to set your tail perfectly into the next gate is your thing, you may wish to try this: 1. Here's one of those 'black arts' that people don't talk about. Don't bleed the front brakes. Keep fresh fluid in the rears. In fact you can deliberately introduce air into the front brakes by opening the bleeder valve with the pedal down, and raising the brake pedal a bit so some air gets sucked in. Don't try it if you're tracking the car. In an autocross setting this method works well because you only need one or two heavy womps on the brakes, plus some left foot braking during the run. Therefore heat buildup on the front is not of concern. 2. Use smaller diameter rear/larger diameter front tires. Thus the fronts rotate slower, the rears faster, so the proportion of effective swept area shifts rearward. Another plus when autocrossing is that smaller rear tires make the tail more reactive. The car will rake rearward a bit, causing more caster on the front wheels and shifting the weight bias rearward. Enjoy, 'jk If you want to go as fast as everyone else, first do what everyone else is doing. If you only do what everyone else is doing, how can you go any faster? - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:09:32 -0400 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E30> Wheel questions in absolutely identical conditions (same overall weight, tire width, overall diameter) there may be marginal performance advantages to 16" tires (someone like Gary D can tell you the tire-engineer truth behind this) but for anything less than racing it's not likely to be a killer difference. unless you need 16" wheels to clear big brakes, the 16's are only going to provide you with a more limited range of track tires & cost more while likely adding extra weight unless you go with a more expensive lightweight wheel. if you're running the wheels on both the track & the street you're compromising with tire choice anyway, so it becomes a matter of personal preference, not absolute performance. if you run a track-only tire, then you want a ligher, wider wheel for the track & the Kosei is the way to go. the SSR's are even lighter, but as you've noted, they are wickedly expensive. there is a 6-spoke BMW factory 15x7 wheel for the E30 which is somewhat rare here in the US, but would provide an easy to clean design which matches what you're looking for. there are also factory option BBS 15" x 7" wheels (same as the E30 M3 wheel, just a marginally different offset and of course a 4x100 lug spacing) which I can supply, but you've stated a preference for a 5 or 6-spoke design. one thing to watch out for with aftermarket wheels is that some of them - the MM11-2 for instance I believe - are relatively heavy. not a killer issue, but if you're going with a heavier wheel from previously running 14's you're going to see a performance reduction if you're in tune with the way your car performs. if it were my car I'd stick with 14's for track tires (lightest, cheaper tires, smaller diameter for better acceleration, fit over the stock brakes) and run the 15" or 16" of your choice for appearance on the street. keep in mind that you have to run a 225/45 if you run 16" wheels on an E30, as a 225/50 will rub on the top of the fender aprons as they are too tall, esp if the car is lowered. you can run either 225/45 or 225/50 in a 15" wheel & are forced by your track tire choice one direction or another with some brands due to the available sizes. Ben wheels, lots & lots of wheels ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 11:29:54 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: installing gauges in an E30 Yes Joe, I had my hollow bolt tapped. But just in case, buy an extra one as a back-up. The temp sender has not leaked. The drain plug is a poor place for a sender, IMHO. You can buy the pressure sender adaptor, you don't have to make one. Maybe one day I'll finally get around to installing the gauges themselves. Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA 1990 325i w/ senders >Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:11:36 -0400 (EDT) >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [uuc] installing gauges in an E30 > >I am looking to install some gauges in my '87 325i so that I don't have a >repeat of the repairs I just did (cam and rockers replaced secondary to a >failing oil pump). I am looking at putting an oil pressure and temperature >gauge in the space presently occupied by the ashtray. I think they can be >made to fit there, but it is going to be tight. > >I am planning on making an adapter block to allow me to retain the stock >idiot light switch in addition to providing a place for the pressure sender. > >I am considering where to put the sender for the temperature gauge. I could >do the sump, but that doesn't feel like a very good place to put the sender. >Ideally I would like to get it in the oil returning to the engine after the >oil cooler. I was thinking about tapping the hollow bolt that holds the >filter/oil cooler adapter and installing it there. Does anyone know if that >bolt is big enough to tap 1/8-27 NPT? Anyone know what the thread on the >stock oil pressure switch is? M12x1.5? > >Anyone done this before? > >- -- Joe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 14:30:28 -0400 From: "Michael McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Brake upgrades for E34 525 whoops, yes, meant to say *bias to the rear*. time to go find more caffeine its actually looking like the best low cost solution is something like E28 M5 fronts or 8 series (4 pot brembo version) fronts, combined with the 540 vented rears. one step down from that would be the E32 fronts with the vented rears as well. both of which are what have been suggested here plenty. of course, I don't know if *best low cost* is the ideal approach for brakes. :oP - -Michael McCoy - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 12:27 PM Subject: RE: [uuc] Brake upgrades for E34 525 > If you're first sentence was meant to say > > "the idea is indeed to move bias to the REAR" > > then the rest of the paragraph makes sense. > > Now another kludge to your problem would be to put racing pads on the rear > and crap pads up front. But I wouldn't drive a car like that. > > Marco > ps my suggestion for a bias valve may not work on your E34 if it has ABS. I > haven't seen a bias valve installed on an ABS 3 or 4 channel system. I'm > not saying it isn't possible, I just don't know how to do it. I thought you > had an E23 for some reason, which I assumed did not have ABS > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael McCoy > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:00 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [uuc] Brake upgrades for E34 525 > > > the idea is indeed to move bias to the front. another aproach would be > bigger calipers on the front, complemented by much bigger calipers on the > rear. current brake bias is around 70% front. I'm looking for more along the > lines of 65% to 63% front. I'm not looking to move the brakes ALL to the > rear, but currently the rear brakes don't do much of anything ... especially > when braking hard. > > -Michael McCoy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "marco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 1:15 AM > Subject: Re: [uuc] Brake upgrades for E34 525 > > > > Michael, > > > > Do I understand what you're saying correctly? Do you want to put > > smaller calipers in the front to move brake bias to the rear? > > > > I also think that if you really want to as you write > > > > " I'm really looking for a system that is truly balanced. as in the > > limit of adhesion in braking is attained at all 4 wheels at the same > time." > > > > I hope you're not forgetting that weight transfers forward as you jump > > on the binders, so by making your bias move more to the rear without > > addressing forward weight transfer you're going to lock the rears up > > sooner and make the car pretty loopy. Or are you also putting some > > really fast computer controlled bias valve that compensates for the > > weight transfer. > > > > I'm obviously a bit puzzled as to what you're trying to do. > > > > BTW you can buy a cockpit adjustable brake bias valve that allows you to > > play with bias to your hearts content. Just don't test it on the highway. > > > > Marco > > > > Michael McCoy wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:26 PM > > > Subject: Re: [uuc] Brake upgrades for E34 525 > > > > > > > > > > > >>The E23 calipers are not compatible with the E34. > > >> > > > > > > > > > hmm. now you tell me. :oP > > > they have the same pistons as the M5/M6 so I was hoping that maybe they > were > > > just a cheaper version made by ATE. > > > they are quite small. so that would definately have served my purpose in > > > moving lots of the brake bias to the rear. > > > oh well. they are on their way... less than $16 including shipping. > maybe > > > I'll find a place for them to sit and look pretty. > > > > > > > > >>As posted previously, almost your entire menu of BMW factory-sourced > > > > > > options > > > > > >>is found right here: > > >> > > >>http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/upgrade/brakes.htm > > >> > > >>(There's a rare E32 tiny 4-piston setup I left out of the list). > > >> > > >>How crazy do you want to go with the brakes? In about a week or two, > UUC > > >>will have the 355mm 4-piston front and 328mm 4-piston rear available for > > > > > > the > > > > > >>E34. They fit under 17" wheels and will be very reasonably priced for > > > > > > this > > > > > >>level of braking capability. > > >> > > > > > > > > > you done the math yet on brake balance/bias/dynamics yet? and if so, you > > > care to share those numbers? > > > > > > I'm really looking for a system that is truly balanced. as in the limit > of > > > adhesion in braking is attained at all 4 wheels at the same time. also, > for > > > a balanced braking system, the thermal load at all 4 corners would be > > > similar. as in the % utilization of the heat sink capacity is equal > front to > > > rear, so all the brakes would overheat at the same time. so not cooking > the > > > fronts and the rears only warm to hot (which is what the car does now). > > > > > > also, why such big rotors in the front? seems a bit excessive. 330mm was > > > more than enough for most LMP cars (granted they are only 1500lbs, but > they > > > do more repetetive stopping from higher speeds than a 5 will ever see.) > > > > > > > > >>Big brakes are not an option on the E34 - they are a _requirement_. > I've > > >>had 5-series for quite a few years now, and have experienced virtually > > > > > > every > > > > > >>setup listed on the BMWE34.net website. Frankly, all of the factory > parts > > >>(even the Nurburgring calipers) are insufficient, especially if you're > > >>building a big-power car. > > >> > > > > > > > > > i don't know if bigger is always better. granted the E34 needs better > > > brakes, but I think sizing the calipers to match the balance and maximum > > > grip of the car is best. and then size the rotor to accomodate the heat > > > characteristics of the system. > > > > > > i've been trying to work the math backwards, but keep finding things > wrong > > > with my approach. I want the math to be perfect before I figure out what > > > calipers/rotors match the needs. the trial and error methodology would > be an > > > expensive way to approach this problem. > > > > > > -Michael McCoy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>- Rob > > >> > > >> > > >>----- Original Message ----- > > >>From: "Michael McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>Subject: Re: [uuc] Brake upgrades for E34 525 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>ok, so those are the fronts. what about the rears? > > >>> > > >>>I'm trying to get rid of the excessive front bias. (getting rid of heat > > >>>faster too would also be a plus.) > > >>> > > >>>what can people tell me about the E23 7 series front brakes? they look > > >> > > > to > > > > > >>be > > >> > > >>>very similar to the front brakes on the M5/M6 of the early 80's. they > > >> > > > use > > > > > >>>the same rebuilt kit... but don't have the same caliper PN and such. > > >>>any info on rotor size and the likes? > > >>> > > >>>thanks > > >>> > > >>>-Michael McCoy > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6485 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . The Ultra-High Performance BMW Specialist | 207 Elm Street, Amesbury, MA 01950 | 978-388-7769 / fax 978-388-4202 | http://www.turnermotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning | and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! | 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________________________
