So it sounds like this was actually intended to go to the board- private list, but since it is public I'm going to throw in my two cents. I talked with Eric about this briefly at the last IIW in March, and I'm happy to see that some of my previous concerns have been addressed. Without seeing the actual discovery protocol document, I can't be sure what is being proposed, but based on previous conversations and what is mentioned in Eric's post here, I have a pretty good idea.

The way I understand it, the idea is that a relying party would attempt normal OpenID discover on the claimed identifier provided by the user. If that was successful, then OpenID authentication continues as normal... nothing unusual here. But if the relying party is unable to discover an OpenID provider through normal discovery means, they make an API call to Google asking if Google hosts OpenID services for that domain. (As best as I can tell, the path of the claimed ID is ignored, and the domain must match exactly. If Google hosts services for "example.com", then "https://example.com:8443/foo"; would match, but "www.example.com" would not. I'm sure the expectation is that users will simply enter "example.com")

Having spent two years at USC helping to build both the policy and technical side of their identity management infrastructure, I do have very strong reservations about Google's actual product. But the more concerning matter is that the OpenID Foundation is being asked to endorse one specific vendor as THE fallback for OpenID discovery. Now in practice, I'm not sure that there is anyone else offering a service like Google has. I know JanRain has OPX, but I would imagine it uses traditional OpenID discovery... I'm not sure.

I understand that the existing discovery methods are a bit lacking. My primary focus for the past four weeks or so has been getting XRD to a Committee Draft which people can start implementing. Google has been very active in that effort, and Eric mentioned that in his post. But endorsing a vendor-specific fallback in the meantime is absolutely not something the foundation should be doing. While it is not set in stone that the next version of OpenID Discovery is going to use XRD, that seems to be the general consensus. Publicizing this Google- specific discovery method, only to turn around in a couple of months and start promoting XRD, is going to create a lot of confusion with implementors.

-will

On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Eric Sachs wrote:

Below are drafts of two blog posts we will make in the upcoming weeks about
the fact that we are now operating an OpenID IDP for the million+
schools/enterprise/ISPs that are outsourcing their email to Google Apps. We would appreciate this not being circulated beyond the board until it is public. This new support required that we work with the community to define some extensions to the OpenID discovery process. While those discussions have been going on in the community the last few months, those extensions
are not yet formalized and probably won't be until they are proven in
production environments. There is the potential for some community members (or press) to assume (or at least imply in articles) some evil intent by Google to co-opt OpenID with these extensions. It would be nice to have a blog post on the formal OpenID blog that was supportive of our approach, so
I wanted to see if the board members are comfortable with that.

On a somewhat related point, I also expect this will further increase the pressure on us as a community to find more scalable UI options since the Nascar style approach obviously cannot include buttons for these million new IDPs. We have also just posted a set of summary UI guidelines that we will
be referencing from our API documentation at
http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/UXFedLogin/summary. The goal was to
keep it to one-page which forced us to cut additional background
information, but if you think we cut something critical, let me know.

Enterprise blog: Google Apps + OpenID = identity hub for all your SaaS

We are happy to announce that the Google OpenID Federated Login
API<http://code.google.com/apis/apps/sso/openid_reference_implementation.html >
has
been extended to Google Apps accounts used by businesses, schools, and other organizations. The service is important not only to the individuals in those organizations, who can interact with a variety of consumer websites with a
single credential <add link to Google code post>, but also to the
organizations themselves, who are increasingly reliant on multiple Software
as a Service (SaaS) solutions from different vendors.


For these organizations, Google Apps can now become an identity and data hub for multiple SaaS providers. When integrated with partner solutions such as XXX from XXX, the Google Open ID Federated Login API enables a single Google
Apps login to provide secure access to services like Salesforce.com,
SuccessFactors, and WebEX, as well as B2B partners, internal applications, and of course consumer web sites. See XXX's post <add link> to learn more about their implementation and view the demo and case study <add links>.


Another early adopter is XXX, a SaaS project management vendor who uses the new service to make it easier for any organization using Google Apps to sign
up for and deploy XXX o their users:

< INSERT SCREEN SHOTS>


Activating the OpenID Federated Login service for your domain is simple and
secure. To achieve that, we introduced a new experimental discovery
protocol<http://groups.google.com/group/google-federated-login-api/web/openid-discovery-for-hosted-domains >
addressing
some of the challenges with the current version (2.0) of
OpenID<http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-2_0.html>
:



  - Reducing the hassle of hosting discovery documents on the domain
web-site - the discovery protocol offer a solution that allows a hosted domain to become an OpenID Provider without hosting any documents at all. Optionally, a domain may choose to host one simple file to support a more
  complete discovery flow.



- Being an OpenID Identity Provider requires strong security protection
  again attacks that could modify web pages on the site. To avoid that
  requirement for businesses and organizations, we introduced digital
signatures on the discovery documents and a verification flow to support
  that.


You can find more details in our
API<http://code.google.com/apis/apps/sso/openid_reference_implementation.html > and Discovery<http://groups.google.com/group/google-federated-login-api/web/openid-discovery-for-hosted-domains >
documentation,
or join the discussions in the Google Federated Login API
Group<http://groups.google.com/group/google-federated-login-api/web/oauth-support-in-googles-federated-login-api >, where you can ask any question and get answers from with other Identity
Providers, Relying Parties and Google engineers.


*The OpenID Federated Login Service is available for all Google Apps
editions. However, it is disabled by default for the Premier and Education and editions , and it requires the Domain Admin to manually enable it from
the Control Panel. So Admins - go turn this today for your
users<http://code.google.com/apis/apps/sso/openid_reference_implementation.html#cpanel >.
At Google.com - we already enabled it for our employees... *


Google Code blog: Over a million new OpenID Identity Providers !We are happy
to announce that the Google OpenID Federated Login
API<http://code.google.com/apis/apps/sso/openid_reference_implementation.html > has been extended to Google Apps accounts used by businesses, schools, and other organizations. Individuals in these organizations can now sign in to 3rd party websites using their Google Apps account, without giving away
their credentials. In addition to the value for the end-users, the new
service also benefits the organizations themselves, who are increasingly reliant on multiple Software as a Service (SaaS) solutions from different vendors. For example, XXX is an early adopter, allowing any organization running Google Apps to more quickly sign up for and adopt their service:

<< INSERT SCREEN SHOTS>


See our post on the Google Enterprise Blog <add link> to learn more about
the opportunities for the organizations.


Supporting the API for Google Apps accounts is exciting news for the OpenID community <http://www.openid.net/>, as it adds numerous new trustworthy Identity Provider (IDP) domains and increases the OpenID end user base by millions. In order to allow web-sites to easily become Relying Parties for
these many new IDPs and users, we defined a new discovery
protocol<http://groups.google.com/group/google-federated-login-api/web/openid-discovery-for-hosted-domains >.
The protocol allows Relying Parties to identify that a given domain is
hosted on Google Apps and securely access its OpenID Provider End Point. The current proposal is an interim solution, and we are participating in several standardization organizations, such as OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org/ > and
the OpenID Foundation <http://openid.net/foundation/>, to generate a
next-generation standard. Since the current protocol proposal is not
supported by the standard OpenID libraries, we provided an implementation of
the Relying Party pieces at the Open Source project -
step2.googlecode.com<http://code.google.com/p/step2/>.
Google is also offering a set of resource addressing the issues of designing a scalable Federated Login User Interface. You are welcome to visit the User
Experience summary for Federated
Login<http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/UXFedLogin/summary>
Google
Sites page, where you can find links do demos, mocks and usabilty research
data.

Prefer an out-of-the-box solution? We have been working with
JanRain<http://www.janrain.com/>,
a provider of OpenID solutions, which already support the new API as part of
their RPX product <http://rpxnow.com/>. As demonstrated by
UserVoice<http://uservoice.com/session/new>
using JanRain's RPX <http://rpxnow.com/>, a user simply types in her Google Apps hosted domain name in the OpenID login box and everything else is being
taken care of:


<Add UserVoice (or other proposed RPX website) screenshots>



You can find more details in our
API<http://code.google.com/apis/apps/sso/openid_reference_implementation.html > and Discovery<http://groups.google.com/group/google-federated-login-api/web/openid-discovery-for-hosted-domains >
documentation,
or join the discussions in the Google Federated Login API
Group<http://groups.google.com/group/google-federated-login-api/web/oauth-support-in-googles-federated-login-api >, where you can ask any question and get answers from with other Identity
Providers, Relying Parties and Google engineers.

*The OpenID Federated Login Service is available for all Google Apps
editions. However, it is disabled by default for the Premier and Education editions, and it requires the Domain Admin to manually enable it from the
Control Panel. So Admins - go turn this today for your
users<http://code.google.com/apis/apps/sso/openid_reference_implementation.html#cpanel >.
At Google.com - we already enabled it for our employees... *
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