One things that AQUA apps do is to set the fpops_cumulative (to a value
that determines how much work was done) and intops_cumulative (set to
-1, to indicate to the server that fpops_cumulative must be used to
calculate credit). I wonder if this is causing any problems, though as
Richard mentioned, tasks with similar fpops_cumulative values are
getting very different results.

-Kamran

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Anderson
Sent: July-11-11 11:15 AM
To: Eric J Korpela
Cc: BOINC Developers Mailing List
Subject: Re: [boinc_dev] [boinc_alpha] CreditNew: Is it really just a
randomnumber generator?

(I'm moving this to boinc_dev; not appropriate for boinc_alpha)

Re Eric's idea: we do maintain std dev.
However, this wouldn't work if there is an initial sequence of
consistent, small values, and large values thereafter.

Richard, rest assured that CreditNew is not a RNG.
Something anomalous is happening at AQUA, and Kamran and I are going to
track it down shortly.

-- David

On 11-Jul-2011 7:05 AM, Eric J Korpela wrote:
> One problem, I think, that might lead to this is the use of moving
averages.
> (I haven't verified this numerically)  They are vulnerable to high 
> value outliers.  If there were also a measure approximating standard 
> deviation it might be possible to exclude numbers that are more that 
> two standard deviations off the mean, which would lead to more stable
moving averages.
> Maybe.
>
> Eric
>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Richard Haselgrove 
> <[email protected]>  wrote:
>> Sorry for the provocative title, but that's the word on the street 
>> (project message boards, for those who don't read them).
>>
>> Here's some evidence to back up the theory, from AQUA today.
>>
>> AQUA has been a project which awards deterministic credit, controlled

>> by a bespoke usage of<fpops_cumulative>  in the<result>  record. The 
>> project also uses close-to-current BOINC server code (currently at 
>> svn 23790), with minimal modification.
>>
>> Some recent server code change, as yet unidentified, has broken the 
>> deterministic credit awards. I can only surmise that the change 
>> relates to the promotion of CreditNew to be the default credit
schema.
>>
>> There have been wild fluctuations (several hundred million credits 
>> per WU) in credit granted for a recent low-volume test application. 
>> We can dismiss those as outliers (although the evidence will remain 
>> on the face of the stats sites for months or years). But my 
>> observation relates to the long-established, production status
Fokker-Planck application.
>>
>> My host
>> http://aqua.dwavesys.com/results.php?hostid=17302&offset=0&show_names
>> =0&state=0&appid=3 was allocated two consecutive tasks in a single 
>> scheduler contact at
>> 1:43:20 UTC today, and returned both results in a single scheduler 
>> contact at 16:08:46 UTC.
>>
>> The two result records returned to the server show a minor difference

>> in CPU and elapsed timings, but are otherwise effectively identical. 
>> In particular, both results have the same<fpops_cumulative>, and AQUA

>> would like to stipulate that they receive identical credit.
>>
>> <result> <name>fp_5jul11_bm_16_005_500_000-1_998_0</name>
>> <final_cpu_time>72198.170000</final_cpu_time>
>> <final_elapsed_time>18889.015625</final_elapsed_time>
>> <exit_status>0</exit_status> <state>5</state> 
>> <platform>windows_intelx86</platform> <version_num>210</version_num> 
>> <plan_class>fpmt</plan_class> 
>> <fpops_cumulative>7407970000000.000000</fpops_cumulative>
>> <intops_cumulative>-1.000000</intops_cumulative>
>> <app_version_num>210</app_version_num> ... </result> <result> 
>> <name>fp_5jul11_bm_16_005_500_000-1_997_0</name>
>> <final_cpu_time>70629.910000</final_cpu_time>
>> <final_elapsed_time>18252.515625</final_elapsed_time>
>> <exit_status>0</exit_status> <state>5</state> 
>> <platform>windows_intelx86</platform> <version_num>210</version_num> 
>> <plan_class>fpmt</plan_class> 
>> <fpops_cumulative>7407970000000.000000</fpops_cumulative>
>> <intops_cumulative>-1.000000</intops_cumulative>
>> <app_version_num>210</app_version_num> ... </result>
>>
>> Yet the credit award is very different:
>>
>> 12053709 10755813 8 Jul 2011 | 1:43:20 UTC 8 Jul 2011 | 16:08:46 UTC 
>> Completed and validated 18,889.02 72,198.17 1,762.44 D-Wave's 
>> Fokker-Planck Simulation : Multi-Threaded Anonymous platform (CPU) 
>> 12053708 10755812 8 Jul 2011 | 1:43:20 UTC 8 Jul 2011 | 16:08:46 UTC 
>> Completed and validated
>> 18,252.52 70,629.91 14,198.05 D-Wave's Fokker-Planck Simulation :
>> Multi-Threaded Anonymous platform (CPU)
>>
>> That's 1,762.44 credits for one member of the matched pair, 14,198.05

>> credits for the other.
>>
>> AQUA is a quorum=1 project, so there's no effect from validation 
>> partners ('wingmen'). Since both time of issue and time of report are

>> identical, there should be no scope for variation in either project 
>> averages or host averages between the two events.
>>
>> Where, then, does the eight-fold variation in credit come from? And 
>> what impression does it give in relation to the mathematical accuracy

>> of the BOINC platform? 
>> _______________________________________________ boinc_alpha mailing 
>> list [email protected] 
>> http://lists.ssl.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/boinc_alpha To
unsubscribe, visit the above URL and (near bottom of page) enter your
email address.
>>
> _______________________________________________ boinc_alpha mailing 
> list [email protected] 
> http://lists.ssl.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/boinc_alpha To 
> unsubscribe, visit the above URL and (near bottom of page) enter your
email address.
_______________________________________________
boinc_dev mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.ssl.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/boinc_dev
To unsubscribe, visit the above URL and
(near bottom of page) enter your email address.
_______________________________________________
boinc_dev mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.ssl.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/boinc_dev
To unsubscribe, visit the above URL and
(near bottom of page) enter your email address.

Reply via email to