Hello,

starting with your second point, I rest assured that a patch that helps
you and does not harm or confuse others would be well received also by
Gianfranco. We just need a very simple way to phrase that you want to
present a machine as new to BOINC even though BOINC has already seen it.

I have installed BOINC on many machines and yet have not encountered any
identity theft myself. In the contrary, an attempt to start BOINC as a
regular user introduced a clone of the machine. I can somehow feel with
you that something is a bit weird at times, but nothing reproducible on
my side, yet.

For your doppelganger issue I somehow feel that it is less a Debian
thingy but something erratic in the boinc client code. What does
"hostid" tell on the two machines that think to be the same? I admit not
to know if hostid is used by BOINC, would make sense if not, though.
Gianfranco may have extra insights.

Best,

Steffen


On 22/01/2017 20:24, trueriver wrote:
> apols if this is a double post, I am not convinced the first copy went out
> OK.
> ------
>
> hi thanks Steffen and Christian for your kind words.
>
> I believe I am seeing hash collisions in cpid on installing the client in
> Debian and Mint. I also believe the Mint package is the unchanged Debian
> one, inherited via Ubuntu.
>
> The symptoms I am seeing are that when a new computer is added to my little
> farm, it sometimes is taken by the PrimeGrid  (PG)server to be an existing
> host.
>
> This is bad for two reasons, and irritating for a third.
>
> 1. I cannot rely on setting the default location for new computers, because
> the new machine will come up in whatever location the doppelganger had.
> This means that it may download and start crunching work that, for example,
> will run for longer than that host has really got.
>
> 2. If the doppelganger had work in progress, then that work is marked as
> abandoned. That means that a new task is sent to someone else, wasting the
> collective time of the project.
>
> (PG have installed two work arounds that ensure that if I go on crunching I
> do not lose credit. If a task completes and is shjown as abandoned at the
> time of completion, it is sent for validation as if it were not abandoned.
> If a task trickles up then it reverts to being in progress or overdue, and
> then when it subsequently reports it goes for validation. Providing either
> of these happen before the WU is deleted from the server, the user gets
> credit -- neither feature is standard on other projects, or so I understand)
>
> With credit assured, providing I finish the work, that gives me a moral
> dilemma when the allegedly abandoined work is 10% into a 20 day task. If I
> abort it I lose credit, but if i continue it I am getting the last 80% of
> the credit for work I know is now being done by TWO other machines, which
> is a waste of the project's resources.
>
> 3 (a lesser irritation) when I am testing out different settings (running
> with and with hyperthreading, say) by mixing up historic hosts it makes it
> harder for me to track which host was doing what when.
>
> I have seen this happen among three laptops, running LinuxMInt Mate 17.1,
> Cinnamon 18, and Cinnamon 18.1. Two of these laptops have the same CPU
> model, but i7-6500U, but the third has a model number that looks rather
> different, m5 6y54. The cpus are similar in that they are all at the
> expensive end of the mobile processor range,
>
> When this has happened with these laptops, each time the respective OS was
> installed from live CD/USB, and boinc installed with synaptic, searching
> for the boinc meta package.
>
> The first time it happened, March 2016, I was told that I had provoked the
> problem by using the same usb ethernet dongle and the MAC address was
> therefore the same. So I went out and bought another couple of dongles, and
> labelled them for the respective machines. I honestly believe I have not
> swapped them around indavertently.
>
> This week (jan 2017) the same happened again, involving one of the original
> two laptops and one that had not been involved before. Different cpu,
> different usb dongle, even different kernel versions as I had not ywt
> updated the older machine's kernel at that time. Different manufacturer, so
> different hardware on motherboard, etc etc.
>
> The oddest feature is that after updating from both laptops a number of
> times, all of a sudden the server was showing them as separate machines,
> and had correctly assigned all 8 tasks issued to the new machine to that
> machine, and correctly assigned all the historic tasks and stats to the old
> machine.
>
> So I am wondering how it did that. Perhaps it is not the cpid at all,
> perhaps it is the server software being too clever?
>
> This effect also leaves oddities on the server, like this from my first
> experience of this issue
>
> http://www.primegrid.com/show_host_detail.php?hostid=512618
>
> as you can see the computer has a different creation and last contact time,
> so you might think it had contacted the server at least twice. But by the
> server's own count, it has done so zero times. Maybe you can see how that
> makes sense (apart from it being a tunnelling effect of your quantum
> computing module ;)
>
>
> I am now told on the PG forum that "Linux sometimes fails to pick up the
> MAC address".
>
> ALSO, I have seen this among my collection of 11 desktop machines, 2 of
> which are identical apart from MAC address, and 1 is a NFS server, and 8
> are diskless loading their OS from the server using PXE and root=/dev/nfs.
>
> The server runs LinuxMInt 18.1, The other desktop machines run a minimal
> Debian command line OS, netinstall plus ssh plus boinc-client. These are
> cloned, but the boinc directories are re-initialised each time to contain
> only the four config files in /etc/boinc-client and softlinks to them from
> /var/lib/boinc, plus a minimal account_www.primegird.xml that provides my
> weak auth code. In particular, there is no contamination of the <host_cpid>
> value as the file that holds that value is not cloned.
>
> Running the diskless machines one at a time works fine, but it does seem
> random whether it picks up thew history of its own hardware, or of one of
> the other machines. I am not sur about this yet, I am still collecting data.
>
> In any case, my preference would be to start each freshly booted machine as
> a new machine on the PG server, allowing me to merge them manually (I have
> been around long enough to remember when that was the norm after a
> re-install, and personally I preferred that).
>
> If  I do not turn a machine on for months on end, when it is powered up I
> want it to be at the default location, not wherever that physical hardware
> was located last time it was used. I do understand the this old behaviour
> changed because of specific requests from users who had their own reasons
> for wanting hardware continuity.
>
> I am fairly sure there is at least one bug here, possbily a different bug
> in the two scenarios.
>
> I find it interesting that so far, in ten months, there has not yet been a
> case of confusion between a laptop and a desktop -- at some poiunt the
> different hardware becomes sufficiently different to avoid ambiguity.
>
> So, FIRST I believe there is a bug that means that cpid is sometimes
> independent of the MAC address.
>
> SECOND, I am requesting a user-selectble option that allows a user, at
> instll time, to choose to switch hardware-continuity on or off.
>
> I believe the second could be achieved by asking a question in the
> post-install trigger, and if the user wanted hardware continuity off, the
> script would create a cpid based on a freshly generated uuid. There could
> even be a three way option: hardware based, based on hostname, or based on
> a fresh-every install cpid (the latter not beng a hash of anything on the
> system but a random based uuid with the punctuation stripped out).
>
> This option would not be offered where the post install trigger found a
> pre-existing stare file with a pre-existing cpid.
>
> As a work-around, that same option would solve the issues created if there
> is, in fact, a bug in the client-generated cpid routine.
>
> Unless you guys can suggest a good reason why not, I intend to make this
> change to the .deb on my own system, and see what happens. I have spent too
> much time clearing up the messes that false allegations of "abandonment"
> make -- by which I mean when tasks on a different set of hardware get
> marked as abandoned.
>
> If you know of a reason why this idea is unwise, as a home project, please
> let me know in the next few days.
>
> I am also offering this to you as something you may (or may not) want to
> roll out more generally.
>
> I also do not know about making a bug report. This effect comes and goes,
> and I can think I have an effective way to avoid it (as with buying new USB
> dongles) then that can fall in a heap. I cannot (yet) produce a definitive
> recipe to reliably demonstrate this effect, so up to know I have not filed
> a bug report. Do you think I should?
>
>
>
> I would value your thoughts on any of the above.
>
> And if it does turn out to be provoked by me in a way I have not yet
> thought of, I would be glad to know that, too.
>
> Is there anything else you need to know from me at this time?
>
> River~~
>
>
> On 22 January 2017 at 15:17, Steffen Möller <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Gianfranco is the more active one on the boinc Debian+Ubuntu packages,
>> but, anyway, I do not think the other readers on this list mind you
>> telling us about your concerns right here, in particular since this may
>> also be relevant for packages of other distributions. So, go ahead.
>>
>> Steffen
>>
>>
>> On 22/01/2017 14:45, Christian Beer wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> if this is a packaging related problem than it's better to directly
>>> contact the package maintainer but the Debian maintainer is also reading
>>> this email list so you may try it out here before opening a Debian bug
>>> report.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Christian
>>>
>>> On 21.01.2017 18:44, trueriver wrote:
>>>> hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> before I launch into a description and some questions, may I check this
>> is
>>>> the right place to ask about problems that seem to occur with running
>> Boinc
>>>> on multiple Linux machines?
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering, in particular, if the install triggers in the .deb can
>> be
>>>> improved to avoid a particular issue. I may be offering to assist with
>>>> that, depending what the issue turns out to be.
>>>>
>>>> So, is this the right place to ask, and if not can you kindly signpost
>> me
>>>> to the right place please?
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>> River~~
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