Helps? Sure, it enlightens me quite a bit in spite of some inevitable
holes in my understanding of web development in general. I don't need
convincing of any sort though =) We, the jMonkey team, have already
made up our minds about using WordPress+BuddyPress to create our new
project site centered around social collaboration. We will be staying
with that set-up for the foreseeable future (god knows we've worked
hard to come as close as we are to a transition).

I merely brought this up for BoltWire's own sake, as I find it an
intriguing project and I could very well see myself using it to build
(with technical help of course) a website for a different project some
day. Also, I was just curious to find out how feasible such an idea
really is, which seems to be exactly what this discussion is coming
to :)

On Jul 23, 11:21 am, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> I read your thoughts twice and checked the links you provided.
> If I got you right, I see no problem to build something similar in
> Boltwire with little effort.
> It is mainly a question how to organize the content as well as the
> access to the content.
>
> In Boltwire you use pages as a kind of data bucket to store bits of
> content (e.g. a single blog post, a comment, etc.).
> And you use pages with a search and template to choose, collect and
> show those bits of content (e.g. as forum, a blog post, a whole
> collection of whatever content).
> Using user rights management, you can restrict access to registered
> individuals, different groups of members, guest users or guest users
> coming from a specified link for every single page inside the field.
> Using a clever url structure you can group data bucket pages as well
> as show pages in a way that reminds a folder structure.
>
> Having 1000 users working on 2000 pages inside one field you would
> have to assign which bits of content should be accessible from which
> individual or groups of users and how you want to present the content
> to these users.
>
> The challenge is to draw and maintain a map of user rights, data
> bucket pages and collecting pages.
> You would have to design data structures for custom post types too and
> create forms to capture (and validate) the required information.
> This is easily done and you can come up with new post or content types
> whenever you want. Try this in WordPress....
>
> What is missing right now is an easy mechanism to map different
> code.skin and code.style pages to different user groups.
> On the other hand, using search with different templates depending on
> which user group accesses the page would be an easy way to present the
> content in specific themes. It is a question of organization too to
> declare in which context you show a h1 headline in black or blue.
>
> WordPress developers have to work around their backend and database
> restrictions.
> Boltwire is far more flexible.
>
> Does this help?
> Greetings, Martin
>
> On 23 Jul., 00:01, Erlend Sogge Heggen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I must admit I was a little afraid you would take my suggestion as an
> > insult (I've had similar debates before). I'm happy to see you're
> > promoting all of the positives here, while not forgetting about the
> > negatives.
>
> > I'll gladly elaborate on where my affection for BuddyPress-as-a-wiki
> > came from. Before BuddyPress arrived I'd already had a similar idea
> > for WordPress Multisite. The idea then was for users to have their own
> > fully dedicated space (a whole blog) in which they could do more than
> > just create and edit one anothers' wiki pages, but discuss their
> > progress, upload files, connect with third party networks to
> > communicate all on-going activities; all within orderly directories.
>
> > This idea became fully realizable with BuddyPress (note that I see BP
> > in a collaboration context much more so than casual social
> > networking). Within every Group there's a single board (and with a
> > plugin it can be just like any other forum, with several boards
> > dedicated to major topics within that group) where whatever is on the
> > group's agenda can be discussed at length, and in separate topics
> > instead of a dreadfully long comments section below a single page.
> > (With the upcoming bbPress plugin, page-comments like that will be
> > integrated with the forum, so every discussion going on at any place
> > in WordPress is part of some forum; all of a site's discussion can be
> > traced back to one source, yet can show up wherever you need it). With
> > plugins there's no end to what you can add to a group: Forum, blog,
> > File uploads, media galleries, RSS feeds, CSS customizations and so
> > on. Every group can be unique, in both functionality and looks.
>
> > At its simplest a group can just be a simple entity that a group of
> > people belong to, with no other gadgets attached to it. At its most
> > advanced, it's a great little collaboration space. In the future there
> > will also be the possibility of establishing pre-determined (and
> > restricted if necessary) groups. On my site, jmonkeyengine.com
> > (building new site at jmonkeyengine.org) we hope to take advantage of
> > this. Some projects are complete, so they just need a place to show
> > off their project, say, with a gallery, an RSS feed of their own blog
> > and some links to their site, that's it. Others are just getting
> > started with a project; they'll need a discussion board, a wiki, file
> > sharing and so on. Best case scenario, users wouldn't even have to add
> > these things one at a time, they could just make a choice between
> > "collaboration space" and "promotion space" in the group creation
> > process, and voilà, the group's got all they need, and nothing more.
> > Of course, there are also means to sort these groups in different
> > categories, else it'd be a mess.
>
> > It could very well be that I have been thinking about this in the
> > wrong way. Being so fond of BoltWire's small size and simple server
> > requirements, I guess I imagined it would fit better as an add-on to
> > more complex systems, as opposed to growing more complex itself. So
> > long as the core remains the same though, I suppose there's no reason
> > why it shouldn't be extended to great lengths, becoming a full blown
> > collaboration suit. The only catch is that this means tons of work, as
> > opposed to maybe just a single ton of work for something like a
> > BuddyPress integration ;)
>
> > Martin's suggestion of an advanced API certainly sounds and looks
> > intriguing. I'm not very technical, but I still have this feeling that
> > BoltWire, being so lightweight and not database-driven, would be the
> > ideal mashup software. If not for the long run, then at least for the
> > big breakthrough. I think popping up on several of those extension
> > directories is one of *the* best ways to market your software for
> > free.
>
> > I think for a successful integration of two different softwares,
> > there's one deciding factor that's come in the way of mass-adoption of
> > every integration script to date: Theming. It's why for instance the
> > WordPress developers have chosen to remake the currently stand-alone
> > forum script bbPress into a plugin, sacrificing some speed and
> > simplicity in favor of, most of all, effortless theme integration.
>
> > Do you think there's any way BoltWire could somehow just inherit some
> > other system's theming? Sort of just taking the body of a page and
> > wrapping the 'parent system''s theme around it. I've no clue...
>
> > Some WordPress resources that might be of 
> > interest:http://codex.wordpress.org/Custom_Post_Types(Thebig new feature in
> > 3.0)http://wordpress.tv/2009/09/13/introduction-to-hookpress/(Couldease
> > non-intrusive integration, I dunno)
>
> > On Jul 22, 6:44 pm, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > An api to Boltwire would allow to use Boltwire as a convienent CMS and
> > > connect it with other programs or devices or do some mashups.
>
> > > This is what people do with the tumblr api
>
> > >http://www.tumblr.com/docs/en/apps
>
> > > Greetings, Martin
>
> > > The Editor schrieb:
>
> > > > That's a very interesting project.  I'm certainly open to making
> > > > BoltWire available in some way to another CMS, but am not familiar
> > > > enough with any to lead out in such a project. I could just provide
> > > > support to someone else taking the initiative.
>
> > > > I'm curious though what prompted you to think along these lines? Do
> > > > you feel BoltWire is deficient on the CMS side of things? If so where,
> > > > and could we strengthen BoltWire somehow? It seems simpler with our
> > > > architecture to expand BoltWire where needed, than to try and connect
> > > > it to a separate system. I use BoltWire for an active and quite
> > > > complex online school and it works beautifully for all my CMS
> > > > functions. There is significant custom coding, but I plan to
> > > > generalize some of that if we ever get around to a BoltWire 4.xx plus
> > > > version...
>
> > > > I don't know much about BuddyPress, though of course I've heard of
> > > > WordPress. On my site for example, I have pretty much everything
> > > > listed on their home page: activity streams, extended profiles, friend
> > > > connections, private messaging, a blog, and groups (classes). Can't
> > > > compare the caliber of the two, but all of these were quite easy to
> > > > build into BoltWire. I'm not sure how scalable my solution is though,
> > > > as it is not currently database driven.
>
> > > > This is an interesting thread if others want to chime in. Particularly
> > > > as strengthening BoltWire on the CMS side of things is one of my main
> > > > goals for 4.xx. It's also one of the reasons I left PmWiki--it was too
> > > > hard to use as a real CMS. My preference however is not integration
> > > > but expansion of BoltWire to make it more competitive as a CMS. Piggy
> > > > backing on WordPress might be a smart move, and likely result in a
> > > > better product, but it would take some really committed to making it
> > > > happen.
>
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Dan
>
> > > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Erlend Sogge Heggen 
> > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > Have you ever considered integrating BoltWire with an existing CMS? I
> > > > > kept this question pending for quite some time, thinking maybe it was
> > > > > too far-fetched to even mention, but then I came by this discussion:
>
> > > > >http://buddypress.org/community/groups/creating-extending/forum/topic...
>
> > > > > I happened to come by it exactly because BuddyPress was the CMS, or
> > > > > more precisely the collaborative suit I was going to suggest you could
> > > > > integrate BoltWire with. Such a plugin could very well be a commercial
> > > > > one, and through the WordPress ecosystem you could very easily market
> > > > > yourself.
>
> > > > > Just a thought.

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