Hi, Roselle. Now that I know the single quote key to the right of the
spacebar is really the grave accent, of course it is a necessary key. The
grave accent it used in many foreign languages to denote an accent. I just
thought it was the same quote that could be gotten with the apostrophe
which is, in fact, a single qquote. The bn people should have named that
accent or grave accent instead of single quote as, in my mind, that is
misleading.
We don't usually see the grave accent used in English writings. But it
might be used in a word where an accent is noted.
But I don't believe that you will see the grave accent used in most english
words.
At 1/14/2004, you wrote:
Paul,
1) If a person is a writer, it doesn't follow that he/she knows the
function of every single symbol. Such accurate knowledge will depend on
whether or not the person makes use of the symbol. This is true even for
other fields.
2) The reason why I posted about the difference between the single
quotation mark (and yes, it is also known as the grave accent which I will
explain later) and the apostrophe was that you were suggesting that the
single quote key is not necessary and should thus be removed. As I have
explained when differentiating the two totally different punctuations
(i.e., different both in function and appearance, mind you), your
suggestion is unacceptable, especially for those who know when single
quotation marks are more appropriate to use rather than the apostrophe.
3) Yes, the grave accent key to the left of the number 1 key on a regular
computer keyboard (this is for Wilma, by the way, we're not talking about
the BNQT keyboard here) is the single quote produced when pressing that
key that Paul had suggested should be removed and replaced with a
right-hand side READ key on the BNQT. The reason why the single quote is
also called "grave accent" is because it is also the grave accent in
appearance. As I said, it looks like a short diagonal line from the upper
left to the lower right.
(BTW, for the curious, the acute accent is similar to the grave accent but
in the reverse orientation. It's a short diagonal line from the upper
right to the lower left.)
For people using foreign languages like French, this symbol is very
useful. Since French names and common words are adopted into English, the
need for the grave accent is valid even for English-speaking users. This
may be what screen-reader manufacturers have considered and thus it is
called "grave accent".
Another member of this list, Brett Winchester (and I hope he doesn't mind
if I post about this but I'd like to give him proper credit for this one)
had written me off-list to agree with my post and to share the following
which I will quote from his e-mail:
"Coeur 'd alene vs Coeur `d Alene are two ways of spelling the city name
in northern Idaho. the later is correct according to local usage. This
is an accented letter (French) for the city name."
Note that the second spelling said to be the correct one uses the single
quote or grave accent. Route your cursor on that symbol and see what the
BN's speech will say. If the grave accent is different from the single
quote, then why does the BN recognize it as the "single quote"?
There is nothing wrong, however, if the BrailleNote calls it "single
quote" because it is indeed the single quote and should be used whenever
appropriate, and since I do not need to type that many French words using
grave accents, I prefer calling it the single quotation mark.
Further, for people who know about HTML, the grave accent is also used to
produce letters with the grave accent on top.
And yes, in case you'd ask, some BrailleNote users do write HTML files on
their BrailleNote and this is another reason why that single quote (grave
accent) key should not be removed from the QT keyboard. For our writing
purposes, BT users who install the multilingual software have keystrokes
to produce these grave accented letters. Actually, even without the
multilingual software, a BT user can assign keystrokes to the unicode
characters of letters with grave accent. As for QT users, they can also
do the same; read section 7.20.7 (Assigning Key Combinations to A Unicode
Character) regarding this.
Speaking of unicode, another proof that the apostrophe and the single
quote are different symbols is that the former is unicode 0x0027 while the
latter is unicode 0x0060. Even their ASCII numbers are different:
apostrophe = 39 and grave accent = 96.
4) Now Paul, in case you still doubt that the single quote of the
BrailleNote is the same as the grave accent, here's how you can find out
for yourself. First, make sure that the BrailleNote speech is turned
on. Then, open a text document, Keyword or non-Keyword type, it doesn't
matter as long as the Braille grade entry is computer Braille. Next,
press FUNCTION with X (BACKSPACE with dots 3-5 for BT users) and then type
the words grave accent. Hit ENTER. You will be pointed to the grave
accent in the Unicode Table. Note carefully that it's called grave accent
in that table. Now, press ENTER to insert this into the text document and
listen to what the BrailleNote will say. It says: "Single quote".
You see, if they were different symbols with different names, then you
should've heard the BN call it "grave accent" still upon inserting it into
the document.
However, the truth is, it's one symbol with two possible names. I say
"possible" because as already stated, there is absolutely nothing wrong or
confusing if the BN says "single quote". Most users need that symbol as a
single quote. People who need the grave accent more often than not use
the multilingual software anyway, because this will give them easy access
to the letters with the grave accent already above them.
5) Finally, as I mentioned in my previous post and as I will continue to
maintain, text that make use of the apostrophe instead of the single
quotation marks is incorrect. I believe I have provided enough
explanation and example to explain why, so if anyone of you thinks that
I'm wrong just because you've seen the apostrophe used incorrectly in so
many texts, then that's fine, to each his/her own. I have stated my
reasons why the single quote should be used in certain cases, and not the
apostrophe; on the other hand, the only reason I see that people, who
insist on using the apostrophe, have is convenience sacrificing proper
punctuation use. I'm afraid it's not easy to break a habit, even if it's
wrong.
I will not repeat my argument and frankly, I don't need to, since the
purpose of that post was just to explain why the single quote key should
not be removed just because people think the apostrophe can and should
take its place. Also, this is not a mailing list for proper use of
punctuations.
Further, I don't know why you say you do not see the single quote or grave
accent appearing on the Braille display when you enter it. I can type it
right on my BrailleNote, and since the QT user Terri Pannett also knows
the difference between the single quote and the apostrophe, then I don't
think this is a BNQT bug. Some other QT user may correct me if I'm
wrong. Now use your Braille display to read the following:
Apostrophe: 'Hello'
Single quotation marks: `Hello`
ISO 8859 single quotation marks: 'Hello'
Note that for certain versions of MSWord, they have included single quotes
that are more directionally distinguished, meaning, one looks like a short
backslash (opening single quote) while the other looks like a short slash
(closing single quote). The Duxbury Braille translator we have now in
Keysoft version 5 doesn't know how to represent this in Braille so you
will see it as dots 1-6, 3-5, 3-5. But when you route your cursor on them
and press READ with COMMA (SPACE with dots 3-6), you will hear the BN say
"opening (or closing) single quote" and the display will show "left (or
right) single quotation mark". These are becoming more widely used,
however, so I'm mentioning them here.
Lastly, copy the three lines above to a text document and then run your
spell checker. Observe that it questions the hello between apostrophes
but not the hellos between ASCII and MSWord single quotes.
HTH,
Roselle
>----- QUOTED MESSAGE -----
>Sent by: Paul Henrichsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Hi, Roselle. If I press that key to the left of number one, it says grave
>accent. A shift, as you stated is a tilde. I'd have to ask my wife, a
>writer, where the grave accent is used, but it is an accent mark, I believe.
>I tried opening a document in the bn and typing this quote followed by
>Hello. and another quote or pressing that key. It didn't show anything on
>the braille display. If I typed it by itself, it showed what looked like a
>dropped h with a dot on either side, but once I entered another word, it
>disappeared.
>I know that when I scan a document and if they are quoting something that
>someone else said, not someone speaking in the book, they do use the
>apostrophe.
>So, if that quote key to the right of the spacebar is a grave accent, then
>that makes sense. Pressing a shift of that key does indeed give one the
>tilde. So, it appears that that particular key is the same as the one to
>the left of the number one on a standard keyboard.
>I suppose it should say grave accent since that is what is said on a
>standard keyboard and quote is sort of misleading.
>Paul Henrichsen
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]
><home.pacbell.net/paulh52
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