The one in the center of the photo is a flare fitting and seals itself, correct. The one in the upper right of the photo needs sealant. best, bmc > On May 26, 2017, at 15:10, Howard Griffin <[email protected]> wrote: > > By the way, am I correct in underdtanding that fittings like the one pictured > do not need sealant or tape? > > Thanks. > <image001.jpg> > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Benjamin McCafferty > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 4:52 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Now I'm stuck... RE: very long start up" buzz" when turning on > Brewtus... > > I don’t have my machine open in front of me, but why don’t you mark the > orientation of the silver pipe to the boiler, remove the same, attach your > new solenoid/fill valve, and then reattach the silver pipe to the boiler per > your markings? Just be sure to orient the new solenoid/valve correctly as > well, i.e. to match the bends in your copper tubing that goes on later. And > have you checked the inside of your copper tubing for blockage? New valve > won’t help if those are scaled in. > > Hope that helps. > bmc > >> On May 26, 2017, at 13:28, Howard Griffin <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I got the boiler out and got the old solenoid and valve off. Now I cannot >> figure out a way to get the new valve installed. As you can see, I have to >> screw the valve into the pipe on the bottom of the boiler, but the black box >> hits the boiler body and I can’t turn the valve to screw it in. (I got the >> old one off by removing the black box and taking apart the valve—I can’t do >> that with the new one because the valve doesn’t come apart). Do I have to >> remove the pipe from the bottom of the boiler? >> >> >> <image003.jpg> >> From: Howard Griffin [mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>] >> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 3:28 PM >> To: '[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>' >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: RE: very long start up" buzz" when turning on Brewtus... >> >> Success in getting the boiler out (pic)—I just left the fill valve attached. >> Now to get it off the boiler. >> >> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] On >> Behalf Of Benjamin McCafferty >> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:14 PM >> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: very long start up" buzz" when turning on Brewtus... >> >> Further to Todd’s comments, I had made my old valve sparkle, it was perfect, >> and it still stuck. In my opinion, just replace it. You’ll get years of >> service out of it after that. >> best, >> bmc >> >>> On May 17, 2017, at 08:27, Todd Salzman <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> I am guessing that there is corrosion or mineral build up on the plunger, >>> part E and or F. >>> >>> You can take that apart without removing the valve body (F) from the >>> machine. >>> >>> It may or may not work and if does I can't tell for how long. >>> >>> >>> Todd >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> I don’t recall specifically because I have done so much on my machine over >>>> the years. But I do see that you already have the part out, so never mind. >>>> >>>> In your photo, parts C,D,E,F should constitute the new valve assembly. I >>>> wasn’t aware you could buy just that without the black brick, but if so, >>>> go for it. In my case, we suspected the magnet as well and so got the >>>> whole thing. >>>> >>>> Take care, >>>> bmc >>>> >>>>> On May 17, 2017, at 08:02, Howard Griffin <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Oh dear I was hoping I wouldn't have to remove any boilers. That sounds >>>>> pretty scary to me. >>>>> >>>>> Could you explain a little more about "support all tubing with a wrench >>>>> when loosening, i.e. use two wrenches on each connection"? Are there >>>>> always two nuts on every tubing connection? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Howard Griffin <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>> I already had the black brick out of the machine. It has a hole through >>>>>> the middle after it is removed. It seems fairly easy to replace. What I >>>>>> am still unclear on is the rest of the valve: >>>>>> >>>>>> <image.png> >>>>>> ^ ^ ^ ^ >>>>>> ^ ^ >>>>>> A B C D >>>>>> E F >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What I removed and replaced were just the two components on the left >>>>>> (which I have labeled A and B): the nut and the black box with the >>>>>> yellow sticker. The other three components (C, D, E, and F) I did not >>>>>> remove. Do I have to replace all 6 parts? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Benjamin McCafferty <[email protected] >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>> I see Howard beat me to the punch. Replacing the solenoid just involves >>>>>>> removing the tubing and wiring from the black brick, and replacing with >>>>>>> the new one. Take photos and label wires if at all possible. The new >>>>>>> unit will need to have the tubing and so forth oriented to match the >>>>>>> original; IIRC one of the tubes will arrive 180 degrees opposite the >>>>>>> needed config. There is a nut that you can loosen to allow this change. >>>>>>> best, >>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 17, 2017, at 07:07, Howard Griffin <[email protected] >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's what I was thinking. How do I replace the whole thing? I'm new >>>>>>>> to Brewtus repairing, but I have found Todd's videos very helpful. >>>>>>>> Unfortunately there's not one on how to replace the solenoid/fill >>>>>>>> valve. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:04 AM, herman dickens >>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> The whole thing. It sounds like the valve is sticking. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Howard Griffin >>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Just the solenoid? Or the valve too? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:01 AM, herman dickens >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Sounds like you need to replace the solenoid. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Herman >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Howard Griffin >>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I think I have made some progress. I examined the fill sensor and >>>>>>>>>>>> it seemed clean so I left it alone. I then proceeded to test the >>>>>>>>>>>> fill valve solenoid as outlined in Todd's WLL video (beginning at >>>>>>>>>>>> 18:08 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIiLeRdVWAU >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIiLeRdVWAU>). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I disconnected the fill sensor and the pump and switched the power >>>>>>>>>>>> on and off to see if the solenoid clicked the valve open and shut. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I could not hear the solenoid clicking. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I took the solenoid off the valve and measured the resistance >>>>>>>>>>>> across the solenoid with an ohm meter, getting a reading of 369 >>>>>>>>>>>> (see photo). In his video Todd got a reading of 400, and I don't >>>>>>>>>>>> know if my lower reading of 369 indicates a problem. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Before re-coupling the solenoid to the valve I rewired it and >>>>>>>>>>>> tested its magnetism with a screwdriver, and it seemed to have >>>>>>>>>>>> plenty of magnetic strength. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I reattached the solenoid to the valve and, lo and behold, the >>>>>>>>>>>> valve started clicking again when power was applied! Even though >>>>>>>>>>>> all I had done was removed and reattached the solenoid to the >>>>>>>>>>>> valve. I put the machine back together and it worked fine for the >>>>>>>>>>>> rest of the day. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The next morning the problem was back: the pump would not stop >>>>>>>>>>>> running after powering up the machine. I did manage to finally get >>>>>>>>>>>> the pump to stop running after repeatedly turning the power on and >>>>>>>>>>>> off and raising and lowering the brew lever between power cycles >>>>>>>>>>>> (about 15 times before the pump went silent and the machine began >>>>>>>>>>>> to heat up). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> What does this suggest? To this noobie it seems like the fill >>>>>>>>>>>> valve may be sticking. If it needs to be cleaned or replaced, how >>>>>>>>>>>> do I do that? I can't find any instructional videos or guides for >>>>>>>>>>>> that. In his video, Todd simply says that if, after verifying that >>>>>>>>>>>> the solenoid is good, you're not getting water through the pump, >>>>>>>>>>>> then you have to take it apart and clean it out or replace it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your help. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Ben McCafferty <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, that's the ground. Usually you can just clean it but no harm >>>>>>>>>>>>> in replacing. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 15, 2017, at 07:46, Howard Griffin >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes that makes sense. Thank you for the thorough and thoughtful >>>>>>>>>>>>>> explanation. I am committed to figuring this out and fixing it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself. I assume that the "ground probe" is this part:<level >>>>>>>>>>>>>> probe.jpeg>. When I ordered the new vacuum valve I also ordered >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this part too, but didn't install it after the machine started >>>>>>>>>>>>>> working again. So I guess my next step is to install the new >>>>>>>>>>>>>> probe. I will let you know how that goes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 15, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, one more thing. If all of that fails, and if I’m correct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the solenoid being fired by relay, there is a chance the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relay is the culprit, which means replacing the giemme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> controller (this did happen on mine also—both things failed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> eventually). I’d wait for someone else to chime in with more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge than me (Todd, Ira, etc.) before purchasing the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giemme. But, for reference, I think the giemme was about $75, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the solenoid maybe $100. So still very worthwhile repairs if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the machine is doing well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bmc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 15, 2017, at 07:12, Benjamin McCafferty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Howard, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you’re mixing up a couple of causes/symptoms. Here’s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens (normally) when the machine comes on. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --It senses whether the steam boiler is full via the ground >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probe that sticks into the top of the boiler (and can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adjusted up or down, by the way). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --If not, it opens the solenoid (via relay in the giemme >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> controller, I believe) and starts the pump, until the water in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler reaches the ground probe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --It then stops the pump and the solenoid closes. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The pump is now available to push pressure on demand through >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the brew boiler, which only happens when the lever is lifted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to its top position. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The steam boiler heats first, and when it’s close to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressure, the vacuum breaker you cleaned closes and makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seal to let pressure build. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --The brew boiler heats second, to a preset temperature. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now then, if you think about it, the vacuum breaker has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing to do with startup (it is not engaged until well after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the problem you’re having). So here’s what you check: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> —Is the ground probe in the steam boiler connected and clean? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> —If so, you would look to either a stuck solenoid or a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> failing/failed pump. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> —Since you are developing 10bar of pressure, and the pump >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won’t quit, to me that says two things: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> —First, your pump is working, i.e. developing pressure in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brew boiler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> —Second, the pump is trying to fill the steam boiler, and can’t >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> —Because of these two things, I’d bet dollars to doughnuts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the solenoid is stuck, and so no water is reaching the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steam boiler, and so the solenoid never closes and shuts off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pump. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Make sense? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, check the easy thing first (ground probe and wire, both >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ends), and then move on to ordering a new solenoid and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replacing it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Others may have additional thoughts, but I’ve been down this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> road and it wasn’t this clear cut. The 10bar in the brew >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boiler is a dead giveaway, in my opinion. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best of luck and keep us posted! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ben/bmc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 15, 2017, at 06:48, [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought I had this problem solved after I took apart and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cleaned the vacuum relief valve. It worked fine for the past >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two week but now the issue has recurred. When I turned the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> machine on yesterday morning the pump began to run and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressure went up to 10 bar. The pump would not stop running >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the pressure remained at 10 bar. I turned it off and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tried starting it again several times thoughout the day but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the behavior was always the same: constantly buzzing pump and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressure at 10 bar. Eventually a high pitched squeal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> developed along with the pump noise and I haven't turned it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on again for fear of burning out the pump or causing other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> damage. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas? I have a brand new vacuum relief valve that I will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> install tonight. If that doesn't help I'm stuck. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Howard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 14:59, Howard Griffin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have had my Brewtus III-V (vibration pump) for almost >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seven years. Its usual behavior upon startup has been to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buzz for a few seconds (5-10 seconds) and then start to heat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up. The buzzing usually terminates with a very brief uptick >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in volume before stopping. A typographical representation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might look like this: [click on] rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRR [noise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stops machine begins to heat up]. Sometimes there would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no buzzing at all upon turning it on and it would begin to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heat up right away. This was its normal behavior until >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, when I turn it on the buzzing frequently goes on for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very long time—up to three or four minutes before resolving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in an uptick in volume, like this: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [click on] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRR >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [noise stops machine begins to heat up]. Sometimes it still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starts up with no noise and begins to heat up right away. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is something about to fail on the machine? What should I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> check? Any advice would be appreciated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Howard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "Brewtus" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/brewtus>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to 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