I've found that banging my head against a wall only gives me a head ache and
dents the wood. Wood wall, not wood head. Just making a small joke, Tom.

I don't see why this has to be classified as defeatism. Instead of:

<You might as well say, well, there's always going to be death and disease,
so we shouldn't try to find new medicines and new ways of being healthy.
There's always going to be crime, so why bother trying to stop it? >

I'm saying there is death, we can do some measures to save the body but we
can't resurect after a certain time. We can do what we can to cure diseases
as we have them, not waste money trying to build a time machine to cure
people before they get sick or die. Crime happens, punish the crimanals and
try to discourage and help people so they don't think they have to commit
crime.

We do know who won, the person who has the most votes. (Ahhh in the state of
Florida, blush)

Probably this will be decided at half time of the Orange Bowl with a coin
flip, that's just as fair as anything else.

Kevin

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