At 10:27 AM -0400 06/12/2000, Marvin Long, Jr. wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, William T Goodall wrote:
>
>> > So, to me the mock apple pie is not an ironic symbol but a touching one.
>> > The problem with using it as an example of the insidious bogusness of the
>> > things we're often taught, I think, is that it's a much more powerful
>> > symbol in it's sincere mode. It's not as though the mother baking
>> > it doesn't love her son and wouldn't make something better if she could.
>> > It's not as though the son, if he suspected something were amiss, wouldn't
>> > smile anyway and tell his mom it's wonderful because he loves her too and
>> > doesn't want her to be disappointed.
>>
>> As touching as the Flag, Constitution, God and the American Way...
>
>Or the Queen, a House of Lords, "Rule Britannia," and Orangemen marching
>through Northern Ireland. Please.
Now now, you two. *THAT* fight is long over. :) You two packs of rabble
jointly made a bloody mess out of the Eastern side of this continent the
last time you got into this, and I don't intend to sit through it again. ;p
>Attack the institutions if you wish, but do it directly. My only point is
>that something people cooked 50, 100, or 150 years ago in order to deal
>with poverty isn't really a good symbol for the corruption of today's
>two-party system. I can see why the analogy it tempting, but it's false.
Marrrrrrrrrrrvin! :) I see what you are saying, and yeah yeah, I am
reaching a little, but you're missing my focus. You keep bringing up the
Electoral College, but that's not my focus. I reread my posts to make sure,
and I didn't even bring it up. Sorry, if it seemed like I was implying
election, but I wasn't. :) You have election on the brain, dude. But I
understand, given the circumstances. To me, though, well, our election's
over and yours lost my interest. I assume it's not yet been resolved? (I've
been out of touch, writing a lot of thesis stuff.)
I think cars were closer to what I was getting at, or even better, the
North American diet (of which I am a damn purveyor myself, argh!!) . . .
it's that very innoucuous, well-meaning, and loving motivation that I am
worried about, when things that are problematic get naturalized. Come to
think of it, that's true in all cultures: clitorectomy and infibulation
debates with Nicola years back come to my mind, for example. The love, the
embrace of ritual, the defiance of crappy luck, all of that is something I
find touching too . . . but lots of other things are motivated by the same
love, definance, and goodwill, and have awful results. There, I think, is
where the problem with the parallel is -- that the mock apple pie doesn't
have awful results... It's effective at demonstrating how a sham can be
erected for all the right reasons, all the reasons we value, love and
family and so on, but it doesn't hurt anyone. Everyone eats the pie, at
worst maybe you get a funny tummy for a day, and then life goes on. So
you're right, there is a flaw with the analogy. Whereas our diet, or
infibulation, or any number of other things are naturalized and produce
awful results.
So maybe the pie could be a starting place for discussing naturalization,
and something that prevents one's audience from getting immediately
defensive. Maybe my har har was a little too quick. Hypercritical I am,
though I doubt it's gradschoolitis... prolonged celibacy? Can I use that as
an excuse? Look what it does to priests! :/
But . . . I'm still gonna make the pie for the next party I go to here, and
if it makes me sick, I'm gonna retract the above paragraphs! :)
Gord
