On Fri, 9 Feb 2001, Dan Minette wrote:
> I wouldn't doubt that he would argue this, but I think that he would be
> mistaken. If one looks at fantasy books, one usually sees a ordinary looking
> person who finds that they have hidden talents or hidden reserve, or are
> really more special than they imagined.
[big snip]
Dan, I agree with your points about LotR; however my intent wasn't to
bolster DB's criticism of fantasy-style plots, but to look at how he
writes his stories to avoid those plot formulas he dislikes.
> And, as another poster pointed out, Tom and Gillian are both genetically
> engineered uberhumans.
That was me. But then, in the Five Galaxies, pretty much everybody is
genetically engineered. So even though Tom and Gillian might be
exceptional humans, one might say that they are not exceptional beings
w/respect to the denizens of the galaxies in general. By galactic
standards they might be merely adequate; the only thing that would make
them exceptional, then, might be humanity's unique culture. (Another old
SF cliche, btw---the notion that humanity has something special the rest
of the universe lacks....)
> >is permitted to dominate the story overall. Tom Orley, possibly the
> >closest thing we've seen to the superhuman hero, even gets left behind in
> >a manner that makes me wonder if DB is making a statement...something
> >like, "Compared to the species, we're all expendable."
> >
>
> That's a message that I'm not comfortable with. While I strongly believe in
> responsibility to the community, and social needs, I believe the
> collectivism expressed in the last sentence is overdone.
That's not intended to be a statement of political collectivism, but a
statement of fact with respect to the Five Galaxies. In the Uplift
universe, losing a war may mean the extermination of one's species.
That's the threat faced by humanity, and relative to that threat Tom's
life is fairly inconsequential (even though his actions are terribly
important). Collectivism is an idea about the relationship between
individual and state.
> >There ought to be some deep consequences from shifting the focus of >people
> >from culture to species, aside from finding ethnicity writ >large, but I
> >have to go do some work now....
>
> The answers to this have actually exited for thousands of years, IMHO:
> belief and ethical systems that recognize the value of each and every
> person. While it is true that most of these have been twisted and perverted
> into supporting exclusive agendas, at least there is something that can be
> returned to. Most of them do have balance between community and
> individuals.
Again, none of these belief systems take into account the possibility that
space aliens might invade and wipe out the species. :-) I'm not saying
that such a notion implies we ought to become a collective that discounts
the importance of the individual, but in the Uplift universe keeping the
galaxies' peace does seem to involve a very pickly ethic/etiquette in
which individuals subordinate themselves to the well-being of their
species, and species subordinate themselves to a vast bureaucratic system
of which DB seems to approve to a certain degree, while also acknowledging
its shortcomings, at least from an earthly perspective.
Marvin Long
Austin, Texas
