Gautam Mukunda wrote:
>> Behalf Of K.Feete
>> John D. Giorgis wrote:
>>
>> >At 10:53 AM 5/25/01 +1200 K.Feete wrote:
>> >>Er, Reagan planned something? I always regarded him as sort of the
>Tin
>> >>Man of Presidents... "If I only had a brain...."
>> >I highly recommend that you at least leaf through a copy of "Reagan
>in His
>> >Own Hand" before you ever make another comment about his
>intelligence.
>>
>> Why don't I just watch his movies? You know, the B-grade flicks?
>
>Kat, that sort of comment is why it's very hard for me to even discuss
>these things with you.
Er, really? Sorry. No more jokes from now on. <serious face>
> So, you think you know something about Reagan.
>I think it's fairly clear that what you do know is wrong, but okay,
>maybe I'm wrong. But, judging by that comment, you aren't interested
>in having your own perceptions challenged. You know what you know,
>and there isn't any evidence that could persuade you otherwise, and if
>someone makes you aware of it, you'll just dismiss it with a flippant
>comment.
<sigh>
First, it was a joke. The earlier comment, not included here, made it
pretty clear I didn't know anything about Reagan- or it was intended to;
I mean, claiming Robin Williams as one of my major sources is a pretty
big tip-off, isn't it?
Second, the comment was flippant; I know. It wasn't intended to offend
you. It was intended to kind of tick you all off, okay, and also maybe
remind you of a body of Reagan's work that you didn't want to remember
about. FYI, I looked for the book JDG referenced and it ain't here- the
Kiwi public library system seems to have thought it unimportant- but, as
I'm sure you've all noticed, I'm not the sort to let having no
information slow me down.
Third, I doubt I'm the only one around here uninterested in having their
perceptions challenged. Aside from the already-cited sources of public
school, parents, and Robin Williams, my main knowledge of Reagan has come
from courses on environmental politics and legeslation. This has not
given me a very positive view of the man. I'm sure you'll argue that it's
a wrong or overly liberal view, but then again, I doubt you took many
classes in environmental politics. Just as I've taken few classes in Cold
War politics. We're coming at this from slightly different angles, is
what I'm saying. <grin>
> >Cambodia and Vietnam I *know* were French
>> colonies, and the French were some of the worst, most oppressive,
>> bloodbathian, pay-back-every-white-death-with-a-hundred-black ones
>>colonialists in existance.
>Kat, you really need to learn a _lot_ more about the history of these
>places before you make a comment like that. I've made these points
>before, and I'm going to _keep_ making them until you at least respond
>when I do.
I *am* learning a lot about these places as we speak. I don't have *time*
to do it any other way right now- it's taking a big enough bite out of my
paper-writing time to keep up with the list. I don't claim to have any
expertise in any of this stuff. Mostly I'm just throwing out opinions and
waiting to see what people have to say about 'em. And I do know that the
French were some of the worst and most oppressive colonizers in history.
I *don't* know whether or not they were worse than the Soviets, but I
didn't *say* that, did I?
>The French were unpleasant, yes. Pol Pot
>killed _2 million_ of his own citizens in Cambodia. The French never
>even approached the level of depravity that he showed. Do you
>understand that there's a difference there, and it's not a small one?
What's your numbers for the folks killed under the French? Can I see
them, just to rectify my own horrible ignorance and get a frame of
reference here?
Also, let me point out that there's depravity and then there's depravity.
An English woman was once raped on a street in India. The British forced
every single Indian who came down that street after that to do it
crawling on their knees. And that was the Brits, who were better by far
than the French as far as colonial masters were concerned.
And, as I think I pointed out before, one opinion in former colonies is
that, no matter how bad it gets, at least it's your own people doing it
to you and not some uppity bastards who don't even understand you. I
doubt it's a commonly held opinion, but it exists nevertheless.
>I actually take back what I said earlier - I'm not going to keep
>repeating this, because I don't see the point. I'm not even sure
>you're reading what I'm writing, to be honest. We all talk about the
>scientific method here, on occasion. OK - what evidence exists that I
>could supply you that would _disprove_ your contention that Communism
>wasn't all that bad - or at least no worse than the other options?
I'm reading what you say. I'm not sure you're doing the same for me.
I never said Communism wasn't bad. I said we'd paid a heavy price for
beating Communism back, and *asked* if it had really been worth it. See
my other post to see my opinions on that one. Nor did I say it wasn't
worse than the other options. I pointed out- or, to be more precise here-
what I was *trying* to point out was that the evil of communism might
have been exaggerated since many of the countries that tried to adopt it
were already in times of major chaos. Communism, for them, wasn't a deep
dive into the depths of dictatorship; it was more a sort of minor
downwards trip, or maybe even only a step sideways, and a lot of the evil
that came on them may have been less because they adopted communism than
because they then attracted attention from the wrong quarters, namely, us.
As for evidence- well, I already asked for actual figures on the deaths
under the colonial system. But, Gautam, this isn't a right-or-wrong
question. It's a discussion of opinion, backed up on occasion by facts. I
don't think there *is* a right answer, and if there's no right answer,
there's no concrete, indisputable evidence that you can provide me to
make me "wrong." Sorry. But if you'd like to offer your opposing opinion
to what I've written, and back it up with all the knowledge I don't have,
I will read it. Promise.
Kat Feete
P.S. And, er, let's all keep our sense of humor about this, shall we? I
know I have a unique capacity to make people foam at the mouth, but
reading this stuff first thing in the morning can get to me some days.
<grin>
--------------------
I don't make jokes- I just watch the government and
report the facts.
-Will Rogers
