At 08:02 PM 5/25/01 +1200 K.Feete wrote:
>>Did you really want those people controlling large chunks of the world?
>>Do you really doubt that the communists would have taken over much of the
>>world had the United States not made efforts to resist them at every turn?
>
>Er, yes. Do try and remember, for a moment, when I grew up. By the
>eighties communism was a joke.
YES?!?!?!?!?!? So what if you weren't born until the 1980's - does that
make you *incapable* of understanding what happened for 50 years in those
places behind the iron curtain? Are you incapable of comparing what
happened in West Germany with what happened in East Germany? Do you not
see any difference?
Even if you seriously believe that communism was doomed to last only 50
years - that is nearly a lifetime for most of those people. The people of
West Germany, and France, and Italy could have spent their lives under the
thumb of the Soviet Union - or they could have lived their lives under
NATO. Is this choice even contestable?
>Even in my parent's generation the Fight Against Communism meant people
>they knew or actors they identified with being blacklisted, McCarthied,
>or drafted into the Vietnam War. They grew up with a bitterness against
>the government that never faded, and has not faded, so far as I can see,
>in the American people as a whole.
I have recently been developing an opinion on this matter - but I am going
to hold off until it crystalizes a bit more. I would like to ask you,
however:
1) Above you criticize America for getting involve in Vietnam
2) Further above, your criticize America for not fighting the French
colonialists in Vietnam.
So, which is it? Should the United States fight wars against oppression
in other countries, or should they not?
>Was communism worth *that* cost? It's a bit of a theoretical question now
>whether or not communism would have collapsed on its own or how much
>damage it did. I don't know the answer. But if you think the cost was
>only in money and time and lives- you're dreaming.
I think it was. Certainly, the Cold War carried a dramatic cost, in that
when it ended (and indeed while the Cold War was continuing) we were forced
to confront the evil deeds we had barely thought we were capable of. I
think it is very healthy for America to be forced to assess the tactics of
McCarthy, and to be able to declare that they were unacceptable, even as he
pursued a higher good. I think it is very healthy for America to be
horrified by Mai Lai, and to take steps to prevent future massacres.
Nevertheless, just as the tragedies of the American Civil War provided the
lessons we would need to achieve future greatness in the next century, I
think that part of the beauty of America is our ability to learn from our
cruel and awful mistakes, and take steps to ensure that they never happen
again. Indeed, what is truly amazing, is that we admit to our mistakes,
and attempt to correct them - without ever changing our system of
government. Certainly, other countries, such as Germany (and others) have
risen above truly horrific mistakes. Almost every example I can think of,
however, required a revolution or a new Constitution before taking steps to
correct them. At any rate, I've never known Communists to admit to
mistakes, let alone to make ammends.
JDG
__________________________________________________________
John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - ICQ #3527685
"The point of living in a Republic after all, is that we do not live by
majority rule. We live by laws and a variety of institutions designed
to check each other." -Andrew Sullivan 01/29/01
