At 04:13 AM 1/22/02, Jeroen wrote:
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: John D. Giorgis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Verzonden: maandag 21 januari 2002 23:26
> > Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Onderwerp: RE: Corruption in a Democracy
>
> > >> >What makes you believe that someone could live comfortably off
> > >> >Unemployment Benefits?
> > >>
> > >>Because they sitting around playing Civ III?
> > >
> > >That does not mean they can live comfortably off Unemployment
> > >Benefits.
> >
> > Jeroen - the point is that unemployment benefits should require some
> > sort of work contribution: such as public service, or demonstrated
> > effort in finding another job.   Both of those requirements would be
> > much more efficient than the condition-free unemployment benefits that
> > are typical in most Western Countries today.
>
>Can you back that claim with facts? I would really like to see the
>regulations in the various countries that Unemployment Benefits (UB) are
>condition-free. Because, quite frankly, I do not believe such regulations
>exist.
>
>I do not know exactly how things are done in other countries, but I can tell
>you how it is done in The Netherlands.
>
>When you are unemployed, you have to make an effort to find a job. Every
>four weeks you have to submit a form (usually in person) on which you state
>any income you have had during that period, and what you did to find a job.
>If you do not meet the requirements (a minimum of eight efforts per
>four-week period), you will get a penalty. Not enough effort: no money.



In the US, it's very similar:  You have to turn in the form weekly, showing 
at least 4 efforts during the week.  They call you in to the office every 
month or so to verify it.



>To get UB in the first place, you need to register with the Labour Bureau
>(their job: get *you* a job). You do not have to accept everything they
>offer you, but if you develop a habit of turning down jobs you would be
>qualified for, you could lose your UB.
>
>The organisation you get your UB from will also point you to job
>opportunities. Their policy (IIRC): three strikes and you are out.
>
>You can do volunteer community service, but only with prior permission from
>the organisation that pays your UB. If you do it without their permission
>and they find out about it, they will reason that you are not full-time
>available for paid work, and cut your UB accordingly. For example: if you
>get UB for 40 hours per week and are found to do unauthorised volunteer work
>for 16 hours per week, you will only receive Benefits for 40 - 16 = 24 hours
>per week. That, and and a penalty for lying to them.


In fact, if you were sick during the week, it is counted as not being 
available for work and your payments are cut.  (I may be misremembering, 
but it seems like the payments were "all" or "nothing", meaning that you 
either got your full check for that week or no check.  Though I may be 
wrong on that concerning illness, etc.  I do know that if you fail to do 
something they tell you to do, it's no check that week.)  Some old forms 
also used to ask if you were _in jail_ any time that week, hence 
unavailable, which perhaps shows what socioeconomic class of people used to 
be the main users of these benefits . . .


The conditions for "unemployment insurance" in the US are similar to what 
Jeroen describes, though the two offices (UI payments and job leads, the 
latter office often called the "Job Service") are part of the same state 
agency and are frequently located in the same building.

(Caveat:  This information is over 10 years old, so things _might_ have 
changed since then.)


>Believe me, getting UB is definitely NOT a condition-free life of luxury.


Neither is it here.  And I didn't say it was.  What I meant in my earlier 
post is that after you "pound the pavement" (or, in the case of 
professional/technical jobs, send out letters and resumes and try to make 
contacts), you still have nights and weekends when you can't do much about 
getting a job, at least not actively like going on interviews, 
etc.  Sitting at home wishing you could go out like you used to be able to 
afford to do leads to discouragement, which is amplified when you try to 
pay the bills that keep coming.  A discouraged person acts discouraged, and 
a person who acts discouraged in an interview is not going to get the 
job.  So, if it's a choice between sitting in front of the boob tube 
drinking yourself into a stupor to temporarily forget your troubles and 
playing video games, guess which one I think is the better choice . . .


Now, if I don't get off the computer and get to class, *I* will be looking 
for a new job quite soon . . .

;-)


-- Ronn! :)

God bless America,
Land that I love!
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
 From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam�
God bless America!
My home, sweet home.

-- Irving Berlin (1888-1989)

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