Brin-l Summary 3-31 - 4-6-02

 From the Editor
I guess you could say that the list imitated real life this week.  We've 
witnessed some of the intransigence that people in the midst of the Middle East 
conflict have had to deal with all of their lives.  We've faced no danger, our 
lives are not threatened on a daily basis, but we have seen two people - long 
time list members that know that IAAMOAC is the heart of our list - completely 
unable to act in a civil manner towards each other.  And this despite the fact 
that it would be a relatively simple matter for one to ignore the other, quite 
unlike real life.  It makes me appreciate the problems faced by those attempting 
to make peace between enemies even more.  The enmity seems to have died down for 
the time being, I hope it stays that way.

For post of the week I chose Kimm's post in the Child Soldiers thread.  I don't 
completely agree with what she said in it, I think we should discuss things that 
trouble us, but I do agree with her statement "Because we are looking at the 
event from the outside, we can see it so much better, but in the long run, we 
truly do not have a clue unless we are directly involved in the situation."  I 
know that I can't begin to imagine what it might be like to have my house plowed 
down or to have a friend blown up in a bus.  Among active listmembers only Ilana 
can truly say she knows what it is really like.  How ironic then that though she 
has participated in these contentious debates, she has never found it necessary 
to speak abusively of those that oppose her in discussion.

The other reason I chose Kimm's post was that she is (I hope not was) relatively 
new to the list, so she's got a bit of a different perspective than those of us 
who have been on the list for a long time.

Here's the summary, spare but there.

3/31

Civility Request
Continuing thread about profanity on the list.

This Week in the Middle East
Child soldiers
Ilana gives an Israeli POV in this contentious debate.

Slappy Fish Dance
Ken Coar is torn between Dead Parrot and the Upper-Class Twit Contest.  JDG
votes for the Argument (The Argument Clinic) prompting a clinical argument.

Space Ships
Doug loves the idea of SFs great spaceships but thinks they're probably impractical.

Fear the Turtle!
Gautam celebrates the ascendancy of the Turps in College Basketball's NCAA
tournament.

Baneball Challenge
Continuing discussion about baseball predictions and minor league ball.

A Dark Day in American History
Continuing thread about campaign finance laws evolved into a scruff over Florida
election results.

Bradbury's Star
Dee notes that Ray Bradbury gets a star on the Hollywood walk of fame.

4/1

EMAZING Word of the Day - Courteous
Posted by Ronn

lawsuit over comments made via internet postings...
Gary tells us about an internet company that is suing participants of a mailing
list for making disparaging remarks about its service.

Original Axis Stuff
John Garcia adds a few notes about confrontations between Germany's U-boats and
US surface ships in WWII.

Goodby (maybe)
Alberto thinks he might get committed, but it turns out he's the straightest
branch on the tree.

Kiln People acknowledgments
Guatama!!
Chad asks, the list answers (**current or former list members):
Special appreciation goes to Cheryl Brigham, Beth Meacham, **Stefan Jones**,
Vernor Vinge, Tappan King, Wil McCarthy, Ralph Vicinanza, John Douglas, Lou
Aronica, **Mason Rourman**, **Steve Sloan**, Mark Grygier, Steve Jackson, Joe
Miller, Vince Gerardis, Beverly Price, Stephen Potts, Hodge Cabtree, Robin
Hanson, Steve Koerber, **Alberto Montiero**, **Steinn Sigurdsonn**, William
Calvin, **Trevor Sands**, James Moore, **Nick Arnett**, Ruben Krasnopolsky,
Robert Qualkinbush, Jim Kruggel, Tamara Boyd, Manoj Kasichainula, Pat Mannion,
Amy Sterling Casil, Daniel Jensen, Rachel Heslin, Alex Spehr, Lisa Gay, Bret
Marquis, Brian Sidlauskas, Stella Bloom, Rae Paarlberg, Joshua

We also wonder about the origin of the name Guatama....

I'm back...
Jon notes "Nothing like a break and then three weeks of listmail to give you a
different perspective."

Correlation and causality
Offshoot of the Civility thread; is there a relation between the quality of
discourse and the use of profanity?

The N-word
Continuing thread about the use of inflammatory language.  Inspired by the Middle
East discussions.

April Fools Day Pranks to Pull on Programmers
Ronn posts this list from  www.topfive.com "Look, Bill Gates!!  Ha!  Made ya look!"

4/2

Japanese
We discuss the origin of the word bukkake which is apparently a nasty sexual
fetish.

Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast
Marvin's got a new game.  Come up for air Marvin!

Gun Control or Abortion
Jeroen is worried that he might not make it back from the bathroom in the middle
of the night at Julia's house.  Julia assures him that she doesn't have any guns
- only swords and knifes.

unreliable Star Trek technology
Gary Nunn is watching one of his favorite ST:TNG episodes but grouses "As usual,
the most unreliable piece of technology on the ship is the Warp Core Ejection
system. I think if I were them, that I would be installing a hand crank on that
thing and have a pry bar handy."  A discussion on other unreliable technologies
ensues.


Civility
John wants to know what sort of research Rich is doing.  Rich replies
"First we flash-freeze your brain in superfluid helium. Then we start
dissecting it with high-energy electron beams..."

Strong Words for Jeroen
The continuing saga...

Living Together
JDG's godmother has participated in a program that houses two students from
disparate ethnic groups such as Palestinians and Israelis in the same room - the
idea being to foster better understanding.

References in Kiln People
David Hobby asks "While we're looking for references in _Kiln People_,
how about all the references to other science fiction books? Some of them might
be tropes, but I got the feeling that some were intentional "nods" to other
authors.  Here are a few--feel free to add to and/or correct my
list:

the purple wage (welfare)   This was Philip Jose Farmer, right?

fair witnesses       Heinlein, in _Stranger in a Strange Land_

Kevin adds Vingean focus trance... from A Deepness in the Sky

4/3

Subject Headings
Doug asks that subject headings not be changed if the subject hasn't really changed.

WTC Photo from above
Chad posts this URL (at Nick's site) http://www.mccmedia.com/RECONwtc.jpg

Geek Test
John Horn posts his favorite geek test:
SELECT * FROM USERS WITH CLUE > 0;
0 Rows Returned

Words from Harlen
Regarding the passing of Isaac Asimov, posted by John Horn.

Ashley Judd as CatWoman
See: http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/details/catwoman.html
Posted by Gary Nunn.

anti-Semitism "Constantine's Sword"
Zim reviews this book about anti-Semitism in Europe.

4/4

SCOUTED: Americans Are Ruder Than Ever
Jeroen posts this URL:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/rudeness020403.html
and Eileen follows with this one by Jessica Reaves:
http://www.time.com/time/columnist/reaves/article/0,9565,221746,00.html

Valley Girl
Discussion of the 1983 movie starring Deborah Foreman
and Nicholas Cage.

games that should be remade
Fool posts these URLs:
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/remakes_032902/10.html
http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/remakes_032902/11.html

Some humor.... (ok, bad humor;p)
Jon Gabriel posts the Taliban computer virus.

Good grief! (Telephone related)
Julia is having telephone woes, others on the list relate theirs.

World Wide Wait
Patrick posts this URL: http://home1.gte.net/lafranks/index.htm

Tweak Temperatures of Smaller Asteroids
Ronn posts this article about how to deflect threatening asteroids.

4/5

More A4P content
Trent has new stuff in the Alliance for Progress Encyclopedia.  See:
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~tshipley/Encyclopedia/Orders/Creatures/K.htm#Kisa
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~tshipley/Encyclopedia/Orders/Creatures/KisaPic1.htm
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~tshipley/Encyclopedia/Orders/Creatures/K.htm#Komahd
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~tshipley/Encyclopedia/Orders/Creatures/LtoN.htm#Mn
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~tshipley/Encyclopedia/Orders/Creatures/LtoN.htm#Nayatha
http://www.u.arizona.edu/~tshipley/Encyclopedia/Orders/Creatures/NyathaPic1.htm

Kevin comments: "That encyclopedia of yours is a great achievement! It's fun to
browse. I followed your links just to see what was new, but ended up spending an
hour going from entry to entry. Fascinating stuff!"

the microchips are coming
"The Food and Drug Administration has ruled that an implantable
microchip used for ID purposes is *not* a regulated device" From Wired:
http://wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,51575,00.html
Posted by The Fool

Now THIS we can all agree on...
Adam posts the URL for PVPOnline:
http://www.pvponline.com/archive.php3?archive=20020401

Trouble in Europe
JDG posts this item about the latest outburst of anti-Semitism in Europe:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=105001871

So much for IAAMOC...
In reference to the unpleasantness between JDG and Jeroen, Jon Gabriel writes:
"Am I the only one on the list who thinks it's high time both of them shut up?
This list is not their personal war zone."

Joan Abbe Benford
Joan Abbe Benford (1938-2002), Gregory Benford's wife, died
from cancer on 25 March. `She attended many sf conventions
and was a noted art educator ... she was frequently portrayed
by her husband in such novels as _In the Ocean of Night_,
Artifact_ and _Eater_.' -- Reported by Dave Langford,
ANSIBLE 177  APRIL 2002
Posted by Steve Sloan

Send in the Clones?
Its started.... See this article in New Scientist:
<http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992133>

Analogies
Julia likens dressing her infant son to trying to land on a carrier that's evading.

Four Questions
William Safire column regarding the current Arab-Israeli conflict.
Posted by JDG.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/25/opinion/25SAFI.html

Insulted by Ray
Dan can't spell L'il Orphin Annie.

Irregulars Question
JDG needs hard drive space.

I learn something new every day
Ray has taught Ronn a new word: macaronic.

Scouted: Tim Burton film rumor
Rob alerts us to this upcoming flick about feline aliens.



Post of the Week
Child Soldiers
Kimm Antell


You know what I don't understand?  Here everybody is arguing about this
subject as if we had any decision in the matter.  In the meantime, there are
probably people on this list who are Palestinian or Jewish (or even
pro-human) who are getting very hurt by everybody's debates about a subject
that they probably truly do not have a good grasp of.

I don't proclaim to understand this subject.  It confuses me to no end.  I
don't understand why the people in the Middle East can't live in peace.
However, I do understand that they are deeply involved in something that
means an awful lot to them.  In the same respect, I can't figure out the
whole IRA thing in Ireland.  That just doesn't make any sense to me.

But everybody step out of your skins for a moment and think about the whole
slavery movement in the U.S.  I do understand how that happened.  That is
because I am living in the country/social area that it happened in.

I had a penpal from France once who came to visit me in Texas.  He was
flipping through the television and stopped on Jerry Springer.  As luck
would have it, it was one of the ones where the KKK was on and arguing with
the audience.  My penpal immediately made verbal comments about "how could I
think that way and do things like that, etc." as if all Americans were
members of the KKK.  I kept trying to convince him that we are not all that
way, but to no avail.

This is the same situation.  Because we are looking at the event from the
outside, we can see it so much better, but in the long run, we truly do not
have a clue unless we are directly involved in the situation.

So I would like to ask you, no plead with you, to stop this horrible debate
that is causing so much hatred to come out of this group.  You do not know
who is reading this, nor who you may be hurting.

-- 
Doug

email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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