--- Richard Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: <snip> > While we're on the subject, what do believers in > souls make of my argument in > http://cdr.sine.com/cdr/shell.cfm?action=article&id=281
Since none of the more philosophical- or theological- minded have taken this issue up, I'll have a go, but as a Heretic Lutheran Deist, I offer neither proof nor apology for my lack of definitiveness. ;) excerpt: >"Suppose there is still an afterlife. This means that some of these transformations must only affect the mind and not the "soul". But for it to be a meaningful afterlife, some of the deceased's identity must persist. This in turn means that some parts of the physical activity of the brain must affect the soul. Certainly, memory must persist, and that's encoded in physical structures in the brain..." It would depend on whether "entities of pure energy," as proposed in some SF stories, can exist in a meaningful way. Certainly we have no evidence for this of which I am aware, just anecdotes that could suggest long-distance communication of 'spirit' or 'mind,' although this would still have a basis in a living brain, except when the other is a deceased person. >"Furthermore changes in personality should persist. My experiences have shaped my ways of thinking about the world, and I'd like to carry my current mode of thinking into any afterlife..." Yes, I think most Westerners feel the same, but my understanding of some Eastern modes of thought is that the spirit or soul may persist, but not in a self-aware way. I'm not a theologian, but IIRC, it says in the New Testament that 'in heaven they are not given in marriage, nor do they eat' - or something to that effect. So maybe personalities don't continue in the same way. But I too would want my uniqueness to continue, not to be enveloped in a Borg-like hive-mind, or recycled into the 'next level.' >"Again, these modes of thought are embodied in physical structures in the brain. It seems inevitable that some physical changes in the brain must lead to changes in the soul that persist into any possible afterlife. However, there are many, many changes in the brain going on all the time. For there to be an afterlife, there would have to be something that decides which of these changes are beneficial and which deleterious. These are not easy decisions to make, and they need to me made at the level of specific changes to single neurons. This would require godlike degrees of computation..." Hence the requirement for a Deity. :) <serious> I have only my experience, and those of a few select friends (who I do not think are psychotic or unstable); "paranormal" encounters are *not* the sort of thing one talks about if one wishes to be taken seriously in this time and culture. A few family stories: several times when my mother really needed/wanted my father to call, he left whatever activity he was engaged in and did so (one was an Army-Navy football game, live! If you knew what a football fanatic my dad is, this would impress you more.). When I was in college and came home at irregular intervals, our dog would get excited ~ 1/2 day before I arrived, and move into the entryway approx. 1 hour before (according to my mom and brother). Same dog who knew ~95% of the time, when I came out of my room, if I had decided to go for a walk -- really uncanny, that - lying, she'd thump her tail at me if I came out for a snack or a phone call, but would be up, ears pricked, feet dancing when I came out with the intention of going for a walk. Shoes weren't the tell-tale, as half the time they'd be in the den or living room instead of my bedroom. Sometimes I'd decide to go, but then finish another page or 2 of reading; a family member would knock on my door and ask if I was 'planning a W-A-L-K' as Misty had already gotten her leash and was standing on "forbidden territory" (outside the family room/den). [One personal belief is that animals do have spirits - not sure if there is a difference except in degree from a human soul - no proof either way, though, is there?] Working in a hospital, you do see and hear some inexplicable incidents and tales - coding patients who have no pulse/bloodflow for a time until you 'bring them back,' and so theoretically ought not to be aware of anything during that 'dead' period, but who can tell of particulars of their resuscitation (non-standard comments, such as 'I just came from a train-wreck in the ER'). I don't have an explanation for these things. But I don't expect anyone to believe in a 'non-corporeal entity' based on such anecdotes, or those of the incredible sense of wonder and - for lack of a better word - sacredness at a birth, or death, or a moment in the wilderness. Debbi __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
