> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Dan Minette
... > Maybe some numbers would help. How many escaped from France with French > help? Gautam claimed that the French record was much worse than other > countries. Do you have numbers that indicate that the French did a heroic > job fighting the actions of the Vichy goverment that was imposed on them, > but that they were just overmanned. It would also help to give some > numbers of non-Jewish Frechmen who were tortured, killed or imprisoned for > protecting Jews. In Vivarais-Lignon/Le Chambon, the French saved about 5,000, including 3,500 Jews. That seems to be the single largest such effort in the country. A historian, Lucien Steinberg, says that smaller efforts took place throughout France. It seems that many people who helped to protect Jews during the war did not speak of it later (which again reflects poorly on France's attitude toward Jews, I am sorry to observe). It is doubtful than any sort of accurate numbers could be compiled. Here is a paper that describes French resistance and German responses: http://muweb.millersville.edu/~holo-con/laub.html The German strategy from Berlin was to hold hostages and execute many times more of them for any Germans assassinated by the resistance. Apparently the German army officers in France were uncooperative with this policy. Here are paragraphs relevant to our present discussion: "Serge Klarsfeld, a French lawyer and leading authority on the Holocaust in France, estimates that 330,000 Jews lived in France at the end of 1940. Approximately 80,000 Jews or 24% of the Jewish population living in France eventually perished in German concentration camps during the second World War.(19) In contrast, 105,000 of 140,000 or 75% of Jews living in the Holland perished in Nazi death camps.(20) These numbers are, in light of the political and administrative chaos that gripped Western Europe, estimates. But they indicate that a substantial number of Jews who lived in France during 1940 managed to survive the war. This brings us back to the question raised by Gauleiter Mutschmann at the beginning of this discussion. How did so many Jews who lived in France survive the war? "Raul Hillberg, Robert Paxton, François Bédarida, and other historians argue that a shortage of manpower undermined German efforts to exterminate all Jews living in France. During the War the SS never controlled more than three brigades or 3,000 Ordnungspolizei. This small contingent eventually arrested less than 5% of the 330,000 Jews during the Occupation. French police caught most of the 80,000 Jews who later perished on German concentration camps. But the Wehrmacht had plenty of soldiers stationed in France throughout the war. In August 1940 the Oberkommando des Heeres posted 105 Landesschützen battalions in the Occupied Zone. The number of battalions declined to 60 by May 1942, but they still represented a paper strength in excess of 75,000 soldiers.(21) In addition, the army stationed dozens of regular and SS divisions throughout France while they absorbed new troops." So, it would seem that internal disagreements in the German army saved quite a few French Jews, which the Vichy government managed to work around, to a certain extent. It seems clear that French collaboration with the Nazis, no matter what their intentions, was not very successful. By the way, Klarsfeld's research is behind a great deal of France's recent public statements of responsibility in WWII. > Gautam said that the German armies didn't even bother going into Vichy > controlled territory. Do you dispute this? If not, they are unusual > puppets who gained power without the help of the German army. The Vichy government was established via an armistice with the Germans. Of course, the French came to that table with their army defeated. Although there was not an occupying army in the area that the Vichys claimed, there certainly was a Nazi presence -- the very officers described above, who were rather resistance themselves to carrying out Hitler's orders, especially with regard to the hostages. Nick _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
