> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Jon Gabriel
... > And Saddam > Hussein and > Osama bin Laden are not angrily compared to Hitler -- that > treatment is more > often reserved for George W. Bush. This sounds like the discussion my liberal friends and I were having at breakfast this morning. This may be like 1939 and SM may well be like Hitler, so I can't honestly oppose this war. I despise a lot of the rhetoric for and against war, which I think is the issue that this article nicely touching on, because it is so much about being for and against people and parties than about the issues that are provoking all of the actions against Iraq, of which war is the most extreme. Do other people here think that this reflects a loss of a sense of shared values that transcend political differences? I'd hazard that most of the vocal folks calling for war and for peace consider themselves adherents to the ideals of democracy (although not necessarily capitalist democracy, to muddy the water a bit). Yet it seems to be a fairly safe generalization that those same loud voices appear convinced that their political opponents are not loyal to democratic ideals. Or is "democratic ideals" the right phrase to describe what binds us to one another? Anybody got a better way to describe that which transcends partisan politics in nations like the United States (or should, anyway). > of the world, they themselves are the issue. In this way, Bush has > discredited the very cause he claims to support. > > And yet, I wonder: Is it possible that some of the most vocal and visible > elements of the left are vulnerable to a similar charge? I would have to say yes, sadly. Liberalism is coming to be defined by what, and perhaps especially who, one is against. To which I can only say "ugh" for the moment, because it reminds me very uncomfortably of what's wrong with most right-wing radio talk show entertainers. My friends at breakfast found that they really had to agree that they wouldn't want to live in society made up entirely of liberal thinkers. Maybe that's a sign of middle age, but it is not the cliche of becoming conservative with age. Perhaps I'm being narcissistic, but I'm a bit fascinated by having discerned the difference between turning conservative and appreciating conservative voices -- a spectrum of voices, I would hope -- in our society. Sometimes it is much easier to respect the idea of conservative voices than the people those voices belong to, but I'm trying... I think I should mention that despite the fireworks between Gautam and me about France, we've made our peace off-line. And I guess I'll publicly thank someone who urged me in that direction off-list yesterday; they can identify themselves if they wish. Nick _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
