----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryon Daly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:36 PM Subject: Re: Bishops to punish catholic politicians who disobey Pope
> >From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >From: "Reggie Bautista" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > But as I said, I don't think this will go through. There is a war going > >on > > > right now within the Roman Catholic Church between those who think > > > the reforms of Vatican II went too far or maybe even should be > > > completely repealed and those who think that the reforms didn't go > > > far enough. > > > >That description is probably true if you are describing bishops, but not > >if you are describing average Catholics. If you look at surveys of > >Catholics on issues such as married priests, women priests, birth control, > >etc. you will find that most Catholics in the US dissent from the teachings > >of the church. Only 30% agree with the churches policy on married priests, > >67% disagree; woman priests: 32% vs 64%; birth control 12% vs 88%. > > > >So, the vast majority of American Catholics want the reforms to go farther. > >From: > > > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data1015 03.html > > > >The balance only exists in the hierarchy. > > I'm not sure that within the hierarchy you could call it a "balance". My > impression is that within the Church leadership, there are very few who hold > the reformist views that the majority of American Catholics hold, or if they > do, they are unable to admit it, as dissent is apparently not tolerated. I > was disgusted to read this last month: I think that balance does exist in the hierarchy, but the mean is shifted far to the right of the laity. The vast majority of bishops have opinions that are pretty much in line with the pope's. That has been his criterion for selecting bishops, not pastoral ability, administrative ability, or leadership. I would guess that there are still a few who are significantly more liberal than the pope, and there are a few who think the pope needs to roll things back to the church of Pius XII. > http://andrewsullivan.com/index.php?>dish_inc=archives/2003_10_12_dish_archive.html#106640638844162996 > http://makeashorterlink.com/?J18942986 That doesn't surprise me. Loyalty oaths are becoming more and more important. My view, and I'm sure that JDG will disagree, is that the hierarchy is unnerved by the fact that the wind will blow where it will. Since the Catholic church includes Macabees in its cannon, its sad that the hierarchy does not take the willingness of God to walk away from his appointed priestly line when they were concentrating on their own agenda. > Nothing is going to change as long as we have the present pope, but from > what I've heard, all of the favorites as his replacement are considered to > also be of the conservative, hard-line persuasion as well. > > Dan, I'm surprised by your report about low church attendance in South > America, as I keep hearing that another reason church reform is unlikely is > because the church's greatest growth is in South America and Africa, where > they don't share the US Catholic's more liberal views. The Catholic church would have a hard time growning in South America because, officially, well over 90% of the residents are Catholic. Indeed, its now under pressure from evangelicals. But, the number of South American cardnials is growing, so that's probably what is being talked about. > http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2003/11/02/the_crusaders/ > (I think someone here (The Fool?) linked to this article recently, but I > can't find it now) > Summary quote from him: > "There's a name for Catholics who dissent from church teachings," he says. > "They're called Protestants." > > Blah. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always > playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free! > http://join.msn.com/?page=offers/premiumradio > > _______________________________________________ > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
