--- Doug Pensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snippage throughout>  

> I'm not sure that even a majority of
> environmentalists believe in the idea 
> of a noble savage or that we need to save the planet
> (as if we could kill it).

Ah, but that weakens his argument of "Environmentalism
as Religion."  <snort>  He also seems to think that
all environmentalists (as if there weren't as much
variety in them as in Democrats or Republicans or
Catholics etc.) don't understand that "Nature is red
in tooth and claw" frequently, and think all wild
animals are cute Disneyesque figures, and believe in a
Happy Golden Age When Man And Animal And Plant Lived
In Peace And Harmony Together.  How insulting.

> Maybe second-hand smoke isn't as dangerous as
> professed, but I am sure as 
> hell happy I don't have to breathe it anymore.

Anecdotaly, I got bronchitis *every time* I was
exposed to 2nd-hand tobacco smoke for more than 3
hours straight (as at a bar, or driving in a car with
a smoker -- I avoid such exposure religiously now). 
But here are a few recent studies that do seem to find
second-hand tobacco smoke a health problem, at least
for some people:

Children, blood lead levels, and second-hand smoke:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14569189&dopt=Abstract
Second-hand smoke exposure and blood lead levels in
U.S. children  [N=5592]
"...The adjusted linear regression model showed that
geometric mean blood lead levels were 38% higher (95%
confidence interval [CI] = 25-52%) in children with
high cotinine levels compared with children who had
low cotinine levels. The logistic regression models
showed that children with high cotinine levels were
more likely to have blood lead levels >/=10 mug/dL
than were children with low cotinine levels (odds
ratio [OR] = 4.4; CI = 1.9-10.5)..." [Cotinine is a
metabolite of nicotine used to document tobacco
exposure, as opposed to self-reported exposure.] 

This is a full article/statement from the AAoP, with
over 50 studies cited:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/99/4/639#B9
"Results of epidemiologic studies provide strong
evidence that exposure of children to environmental
tobacco smoke is associated with increased rates of
lower respiratory illness and increased rates of
middle ear effusion, asthma, and sudden infant death
syndrome. Exposure during childhood may also be
associated with development of cancer during
adulthood..."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14678338&dopt=Abstract
"Passive smoking impairs the elasticity of the aorta
in patients with coronary heart disease. We therefore
studied the effect of passive smoking on wave
reflection in the aorta, a marker of arterial
stiffness, in healthy subjects. ...Acute exposure to
passive smoking has a deleterious effect on the
arterial pressure waveform in healthy young males but
not in females, suggesting a possible protection of
female gender from functional changes in arteries."

OTOH, breast cancer seems to increase with smoke dose:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12244030&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12641186&dopt=Abstract
"Nitric oxide (NO) is produced and detected in the
exhalate from the respiratory tract where it plays
important regulatory functions. Exhaled nitric oxide
(eNO) concentrations are reduced in active cigarette
smokers between cigarettes and in nonsmoking subjects
during short-term exposure to environmental tobacco
smoke...Exposure to environmental tobacco smoke
transiently--but consistently--decreased eNO
concentration in healthy, nonsmoking subjects,
suggesting that second-hand smoke can directly affect
NO in the airway environment."  [Nitric oxide is also
important as a vasodilator, and level reduction in
local microclimates, as in the coronary arteries,
contributes to coronary artery spasm -> possible heart
attack in a diseased or compromised vessel.]

Second-hand tobacco smoke and heart disease:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12198272&dopt=Abstract
"To investigate the association between environmental
tobacco smoke (ETS) exposure (at least 30 minutes a
day) and the risk of developing acute coronary
syndromes (ACS)...This study supports the hypothesis
that exposure to ETS increases the risk of developing
ACS. The consistency of these findings with the
existing totality of evidence presented in the
literature supports the role of ETS in the aetiology
of ACS."  [N~1900; figures reported in this abstract]

The elderly and environmental tobacco smoke [that's
the "in" phrase now, instead of "second-hand smoke,"
as you can see from most of the titles cited]:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11852892&dopt=Abstract
"...There is convincing evidence that ETS causes lung
cancer and coronary heart disease, both of which are
diseases of the elderly. Several cross-sectional
studies show increased occurrence of chronic
respiratory symptoms and deficits in ventilatory lung
function in relation to ETS exposure at home and/or at
work. A limited number of studies have found
significant relations between ETS exposure and asthma,
chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD),
pneumococcal infections and stroke in the elderly.
Longitudinal studies are needed before any definite
conclusions can be made concerning ETS and
noncarcinogenic respiratory diseases in the
elderly..." 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11740032&dopt=Abstract
"On the basis of present exposures, we estimate there
will be about 325 potentially avoidable deaths caused
by SHS in New Zealand each year in the future." 
[Not mentioned in the abstract how they came to that
figure.]

You will be alarmed to learn that rabbits exposed to
secondhand smoke develop arterial plaque/atheromatous
changes:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11502707&dopt=Abstract

While cats have increased risk of lymphoma developing:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12142262&dopt=Abstract
"...These findings suggest that passive smoking may
increase the risk of malignant lymphoma in cats and
that further study of this relation in humans is
warranted."

And dogs must worry about nasal cancer:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9525536&dopt=Abstract

This is one of several articles reporting that the
tobacco industry has interfered with the
study/regulation of second-hand smoke exposure and its
health consequences:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10770318&dopt=Abstract

I can post lots more if anyone wants them.

> It seems to me that the statement "Our record in the
> past, for example 
> managing national parks, is humiliating. Our
> fifty-year effort at 
> forest-fire suppression is a well-intentioned
> disaster from which our 
> forests will never recover." is exactly the kind of
> rhetoric he's arguing 
> against for most of the rest of the speech.  Never?

Heck, even the *redwoods* will recover from
clear-cutting in a millenium or two...assuming there
are some patches of virgin forest left as
nurseries...the salmon runs should recover sooner,
assuming some other tree-cover grows to protect the
high streams so that the mud/silt-of-erosion clears
and gravelbeds are restored...

Debbi
who is clearly on a tear (but with nary a drop of
alcohol on board!)

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