--- Erik Reuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 22, 2004 at 08:53:02PM -0700, Gautam
> Mukunda wrote:
> Sounds like you are attributing malevolence to them.
> Maybe they honestly
> disagree with you? Perhaps they feel that they are
> saving billions of
> lives (the human race) sometime in the future?

I'm sure they do.  The question is, is this a
reasonable belief?  Is it reasonable to say "There's
some unspecified risk that this might possibly be
dangerous to the people - no evidence that it ever
will be, and no one has ever been harmed by it - but
it's possible.  So, just to avoid that
impossible-to-determine, but very small, possibility -
I think people should die through mass starvation." 
That's the logic chain you have to go through.  I
think that chain is morally unconscionable.
> 
> By the way, this seems to be a partial answer to the
> question I asked
> you earlier about your tolerance for people honestly
> disagreeing with
> you. As long as it doesn't strike to close to home,
> they can disagree.
> But if it feels too personal, then they are evil.

I don't think so, no.  "Golden rice" doesn't strike
particularly close to home.  It's a question of
immediacy and impact.  In this case, for example,
_all_ of the pain from stopping things like this is
inflicted on other (poor, brown) people.  That's
always a key sign right there - when someone else has
to pay all of the costs of whatever questionable
decision you make, and those costs are extremely high.


> I think many environmentalists' judgement is way off
> on many things,
> but your argument here is not persuasive. Your game
> above is the same
> game that the anti-free-trade people play. "Name one
> person who has been
> helped by outsourcing?". They can name plenty who
> have been hurt by it.
> 
> Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/

I don't think so.  First, there's a difference in
seriousness.  Losing your job is bad.  Starving to
death or dying in food riots is much worse.  Second,
there's a difference in cost-benefit.  It is virtually
certaint that, over the long run, everyone will
benefit from allowing offshoring and outsourcing. 
When you make the argument that it's a good thing, you
can be as certain as you can be about anything that it
is correct - free trade is a good thing.

Here, on the other hand, you had a situation where
there was a possibility (a very small one).  In fact
now, with the advantage of hindsight, we can see that
the activists were entirely wrong - the Green
Revolution was an absolutely good thing, as were the
American food shipments that fed much of India before
it could take hold.  Strikingly, Ehrlich (for example)
has never even admiited that he was wrong, instead
continuing to make the same arguments, just pushed
ever further into the future.

So for the possibility that there would be some
unspecified benefit from "natural" agriculture, or
stopping the growth of genetically engineered rice,
you have the _certainty_ of millions of deaths from
starvation or millions of cases of child blindness. 
That's something so vastly different as to allow a
moral calculation to be made, I think.

You are right as to one thing.  This is not like Iraq
- I don't believe that there are two morally
acceptable positions.  But the reason for that is the
difference in situations.  In Iraq the moral arguments
were unclear - it was definitely good for the Iraqi
people (good), but the most important moral factor in
the decision-making was is it good for the _American_
people (or British, Australian, what have you).  That
was unclear, and still is.  But in the case of golden
rice (for example) it doesn't work that way.  There's
a certainty of an extremely large benefit, while the
possibility of any harm at all is somewhere between
exceptionally low and non-existent.  If you think the
blindness of millions of kids is worth stopping some
unspecified and very small risk that genetically
engineered rice might in some way harm someone, then
you're into a morally insupportable position.

=====
Gautam Mukunda
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Freedom is not free"
http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com


        
                
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