---------- From: The Fool <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <<http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_04_25_atrios_archive.html#10834253273593
8430>> ... HAGERTY: Those Catholics who hold to absolute truth follow the conservative moral teachings of the Vatican, and they overwhelmingly vote Republican, much as evangelical white Protestants do. But less orthodox Catholics, sometimes called cafeteria Catholics, gravitate toward the liberal side of church teachings, just as many mainline Protestants do, on the death penalty, on social welfare and justice issues, on war and peace. For these Catholics, White says, John Kerry is a very comfortable fit. AtriosCommentary: So, wait, do the "orthodox Catholics," who follow the "conservative moral teachings of the Vatican," ignore the church's teachings on the death penalty, social welfare and justice issues, on war and peace? Why does that make them "orthodox?" Why do these Catholics who hold to "absolute truth" apparently ignore their Church on all issues other than sex and abortion? Why are they not "cafeteria Catholics?" ... HAGERTY: But tell that to the worshipers at the 8:00 Mass at St. Matthew's Cathedral in Washington. All but one interviewed there on a recent morning said they won't vote for Kerry. They said they knew he personally thought abortion was wrong but that his stand on abortion rights had a larger meaning. Here's Philip Monos(ph), Carrie Gress(ph) and Ted Flynn. AtriosCommentary: As a helpful reader (sorry, forgot who right now) has pointed out, St. Matthew's Cathedral in Washington has no Sunday 8:00 Mass. They have 8:00 masses every other day of the week. Catholics are supposed to attend mass on Sundays and specific Holy Days - those who attend mass on other days are particularly hardcore conservative Catholics. So, this is in no way a random sample of the Catholic-on-the-street. Just the opposite. Mr. PHILIP MONOS (Worshiper): It's really character and personal integrity, and a man who does not seem committed to his faith, I don't see why he would be committed to his ideas or necessarily even his country. Ms. CARRIE GRESS (Worshiper): It seems that he doesn't take his faith seriously, and it's something that it seems like he's using as a political card instead of something that he deeply believes in and is committed to. Mr. TED FLYNN (Worshiper): I would work very hard against Senator Kerry because I think he is actually, from start to finish, a four-star phoney. HAGERTY: Another early worshiper, Charles Loveless, a union official, downplayed the abortion issue. AtriosCommentary: Only one person had their occupation pointed out - a union official (Read: commie partisan Democrat). Mr. CHARLES LOVELESS (Worshipper): There is a vast array of other social issues for children, for poor people, for things that we Catholics stand for, and in practically every one of these other issues, he is the man. ... HAGERTY: Catholics have, in fact, become a key swing vote in national elections, one that Republican strategists think they can win and one that John Kerry can scarcely afford to lose. Barbara Bradley Hagerty, NPR News. AtriosCommentary: Here we get the punchline - those who are moral vote Republican. Those who are not vote Democrat. Kerry is immoral, simply because he doesn't believe all of his personal religious beliefs should be legislated. ... Followup: <<http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_05_02_atrios_archive.html#10835005447477 5691>> Reader e did a bit of follow-up on some of the people interviewed by NPR's Hagerty regarding Kerry's Catholicism. As you may remember, she interviewed 4 people coming out of an 8:00 am mass - a mass which only could have happened Monday-Saturday according to the Church's public schedule. Only one of those people had their occupations identified - a "union official" (commie Democrat). What about the other 3? Well, this reader discovered nothing on one of them, but what of the other two? First we had Ted Flynn. Could it be this Ted Flynn? <<http://www.wces.org/html_files/tedflynn.html>> Ted Flynn who has written yet another version of Pat Robertson "New World Order" book, which itself was itself lifted wholesale (and then sanitized) from standard anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. And, then, she also interviewed Carrie Gress, who likely is the woman who is the program studies manager at the Catholic Studies Program at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, which is yet another Scaife/Bradley funded right wing lunatic tank. You'd think her occupation, at least, would have been relevant. ---- Further Followups: <<http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_05_02_atrios_archive.html#10835496769444 2020>> AtriosCommentary: Body and Soul pointed out that the boss of Carrie Gress (one of the people interviewed by Hagerty), is George Weigel, who recently argued that people should ignore the Vatican... when it comes to war. This brought to mind a similar piece by Hagerty, in which she was discussing the declining authority of the Church. In that, she interviewed the editor of First Things: HAGERTY: And, of course, the '60s challenged every form of authority, from the police and the presidency to pastor and the pontiff. The changes were particularly pronounced in the Catholic Church, as that decade brought a dramatic shift in the relationship between the hierarchy of the church and the people in the pews. ... AtriosCommentary: So, one short year ago it apparently wasn't important to be a "good Catholic" or an "orthodox" Catholic. Ignoring the will of the church was a good and correct thing. Now, apparently, ignoring the will of a few in the Church is a bad bad bad thing. And, according to Hagerty, it isn't just important to Catholic voters - it's important to all voters. Where Hagerty gets this piece of information? She pulls it right out of her ass. How did Hagerty conclude that report? HAGERTY: Whether these kinds of messages will influence the public's thinking about a possible war with Iraq, much less the president's thinking, is anyone's guess. No doubt churches will still try to give moral guidance to the nation. They'll just have a lot more competition. Barbara Bradley-Hagerty, NPR News, Washington. AtriosCommentary: You see, then Hagerty did inform us that Bush was defying the wishes of his own Church. But, again, that was a good and normal thing. Unlike now. You see, then it apparently wasn't important to voters that Bush was a good Methodist, or other legislators were good Catholics. -------- <<http://rogerailes.blogspot.com/2004_05_02_rogerailes_archive.html#108353 783030497062>> R.AilesCommentary: The mighty Atrios and his intrepid readers have uncovered some interesting information (Post One, Post Two) about the recent coverage of Senator Kerry and Catholicism by National Public Radio's Barbara Hagerty. In an April 30 report, Hagerty attends an 8.00 a.m. Mass and interviews three Catholic parishoners there who deem Senator Kerry unfit for for political office. What Hagerty does not disclose is that those three individuals -- Ted Flynn, Phillip Munoz and Carrie Gress -- are ([redacted]) rabid-right Catholic authors, academics and think-tank employees. And there are still more ties -- ties between Gress and Munoz and Father Richard John Neuhaus, who is interviewed in the report and identified only as an editor of First Things magazine. (First Things is a publication of the Institute On Religion and Public Life, a regular recipient of wingnut largese.) In the NPR piece, Neuhaus lumps Kerry in with "politicians ...[who] openly, publicly, persistently and defiantly say, in effect, 'I don't give a damn what the church teaches. Here's the position I'm going to take.'" In addition to his job as editor-in-chief of First Things, Neuhaus is also a director of the Ethics and Public Policy Center, where Gress is a Program Manager. In fact, Gress is the Program Manager of the EPPC's Catholic Studies Project, which "[w]orks with world-renowned Catholic scholars and writers like William J. Bennett, Avery Cardinal Dulles, S.J., Robert P. George, Mary Ann Glendon, Russell Hittinger, Richard John Neuhaus, and Michael Novak" to produce works that "have helped shape the engagement of the Catholic Church in the United States with the great international and domestic issues of our time." The EPPC's website states, with apparent modesty, that "The Catholic Studies Project is also a prominent Washington reference point for government officials, Members of Congress, and journalists seeking to understand the social doctrine of the Catholic Church and its application to public policy questions." Meanwhile, Gress's immediate boss at the EPPC, George Weigel, is on the Editorial Board of First Things. And Vincent Phillip Munoz has been published in First Things. Small world. Interestingly, tomorrow morning the EPPC is holding a panel discussion, entitled Kerry-Bush (sic) and the Faith Factor, "to talk about the media's coverage of the candidates' faith." Maybe someone will ask about the ethical considerations and spiritual ramifications of cherry-picking. ------ "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded project." - James Madison
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