Dan Minette wrote
OK, I'll agree that I don't need any faith to state that I
don't like to be hurt.
... but I'm stating that there is no factual basis for human
rights.
I wrote
> This does not make sense. If you don't like to be hurt -- if
> you don't like the fact of someone else's `fist in your nose' --
> and if you figure that there are some people more powerful than
> you, then you will want `freedom from' their hurtful actions.
Dan Minette wrote
Sure. But, if you don't have the power to do it, then what
practical effect does wishing have?
Well, the question is about a factual basis -- is there any factual
basis for wishing? My argument is that there is: not that the wish
will be successful, but that people did and do wish.
> But factually, slaves did feel hurt and did revolt.
And usually lost. Slave revolts in Rome ended with mass
crucifixions to let slaves know that things actually could get
worse.
Right, they lost. My argument is that they had a basis for those
revolts. They wished to be free. They lost the wish. But the wish
did exist.
> Only if you figure that you are and will be the strongest, or
> belong to that group, does it make sense to come out against
> others' human rights.
Sure. If the Southern slave owners actually acknowledged the
basic human rights of their slaves, wouldn't they have to admit
they were morally obliged to release them?
Yes.
Wouldn't they lose the economic benefits of having subsistence
workers do what they want?
Yes.
Are not both good factual bases for the slaves wanting human rights?
I believe in human rights; I'm just arguing that they are not
factually based. Someone wanting something doesn't make it a
fact.
Wanting something does not guarantee you will get it; but the act of
desiring is a fact.
I am saying that the act of the slaves wanting to avoid hurt was and
is a fact. That their wishes were foiled does not mean they never had
those wishes.
You can have a wish without it being satisfied.
And having a wish not to get hurt is a basis for ethics.
--
Robert J. Chassell
[EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc
_______________________________________________
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
