On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:55:11 -0500, Dan Minette wrote > Right, and all are useful in trying to determine the most probable > consequences of actions.
Then we agree. > Those type of questions can be regarded as > emperical questions, for which analysis and modeling of observations > provide our best predictions. The question of going to war or not? If so, then we disagree, as I have no doubt that there is a moral dimension that does not arise from analysis but cannot be omitted. > My point has never been that we should have gone in. My point was that > anyone who was opposed to going in, as I was, needs to acknowledge > the cost of not going in. Acknowledged. Now can we move on? It seems like you are saying that I've been arguing for non-invertention, which frustrates the heck out of me, since I never intended to say any such thing and it seems downright silly to imagine that I would have. > I can go back through the posts, but I see repeated claims that we > can find a choice that involves far less violence than war, yet > accomplish the most important objectives. Is a "claim" the same thing as a "hope?" Is an argument the same thing as faith? > Finally, I would argue that the only justification for killing and > war is weakness. If we were strong enough to stop evil actions > without such extreme measures, then we would be morally compelled to > do so. I cannot agree with the premise that underlies this -- that evil is "out there" and we "in here," if powerful enough, can eliminate it. I see nothing wrong with pointing to Saddam and saying that he was doing extremely evil things. But the next step that we have take as a national policy, which is to say that they are evil and we are good, seems to me is hubris of the most dangerous kind. It is nationalistic idolatry. We are not the good. Like everyone else in the world, we have good and evil in us. Saddam seems to have let the evil take him over, but the fact that we can oppose that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in us as well. The faith you and I share, Dan, warns us repeatedly against the idolatry that would have us worship a nation, including our own, but that's exactly what we're doing when we iamgine that the United States fighting Iraq is a battle of good against evil. We removed great evil from a Iraq. That doesn't automatically make us good. In fact, military power comes with tremendous temptations. Nick _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
