David Hobby wrote:
Welcome back.  I think you're missing Charlie's point.
To me, his argument is that it is VERY hard to draw a clear
line between things that can turn into adult humans and things
that can't.  I advise conceding the point, unless you just
like to argue for the fun of it.  : )

May I propose that you reply:  "Anything produced by combining
a human egg and sperm certainly counts as HUMAN.  Other things
might also; we'll decide about clones later."

                ---David

(Must--not--argue--with--John...  No, it's no use, I
can't help but gang up on you:  Personally, I think
you ARE a long ways down a slippery slope to "every
sperm is sacred".  Sorry.)
Perhaps it is an overstatement to say that every sperm is sacred, but human life most definitely is. And if our popular culture no longer values the sacred, or even understands the meaning of the term "sacred," we have lost a big part of what makes our own lives valuable. I mean, we think nothing of stepping on ants. But if human life has no especial meaning, why should it be any greater wrong to step on humans in the same fashion? Are not ants just as "alive" as we are? But if there is some special value to a human life, why draw a line anywhere and say it is unimportant and without value? Certainly there have been men and tyrants throughout human history that would as soon kill as preserve human life. With them killing men was no more than stepping on ants. Maybe they have the right attitude, do you think? If not, maybe we should treasure every human life at every stage of development. And if some sperm, ova and zygotes get the ax, then let it be for some very important reason, not just as a convenience or because we think no more of it than of sterilizing a bacteria colony or, squashing bugs under our feet. We don't need to think of a sperm or zygote as "sacred." But we should consider what we do when we cultivate a sentiment among us that babies don't matter and are no more worthy to live than germs, and less worthy to live convicted murderers. Abortion may not be murder, but it is certainly a form of child abuse, a rather terminal one. I'd be willing to bet anything that the hard-hearted men and women who abort unborn children don't love those that are born very much either.

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