DAN MINETTE,
During the late summer and fall the list discussed dogmatism in a thread on
Myers-Briggs. While Christian and Islamic Fundamentalism were considered
the main examples, Ayn Rand and Marxism were also mentioned. Actually, Marx
once said there was no such thing as "Marxism." Marx was just the greatest
thinker in the Socialist tradition, although I think there is a movement and
a set of ideas that should be called Marxist. But it was really Stalin, who
had been educated in a Christian seminary who created a Stalinist version of
Communism which is very dogmatic. I don't believe that Western Universities
ever "taught Marxism" in a dogmatic, Stalinist sense. However, they used his
ideas as well as those of other great thinkers like Hegel(philosophy),
Einstein(physics), Jesus (ethics), Decarte(Math), Friedman (conservative
economics), Keynes(liberal economics). Whether we are aware of it or not,
Christianity does influence much of our ideas on ethics.
You are correct that for Marxists class is more important than individuals
and civil rights in understanding society. But civil rights are also very
important for them- read the early Marxists' Gotha Program, one of the most
democratic in Europe at the time- freedom of religion, universal voting
rights, freedom of public expression. Many countries did not have universal
voting rights in the 1800's. Even in the 20th century, the USSR did not have
segregation for minorities, and it even wanted to add into the United
Nations' charter the "Right to Work" (meaning the right to get a job) which
the American government disagreed with.
The Soviet Union always had a very democratic constitution guaranteeing
civil liberties, but in practice there was a wide range of whether it was
implemented. You could make a spectrum from Gorbachev(democracy) to
Khrushchev(expanded oligarchy) to Stalin(destructive one-man rule).
KLAUS:
That is an interesting point about how the US government did not always
actually create democracies in Latin America, "its sphere of influence." Can
you say what are some ways you felt East Germany was democratic?
ANDREW PAUL
You asked "Who discredited Communism?" Stalin made Communism to mean a
one-man dictatorship in people's minds. Stalin is responsible for
discrediting Communism.
But many Asians and Eastern Europeans had been used to living under kings
(inherited dictatorships), so it took time for them to reject Stalinism.
ALBERTO MONTEIRO,
>> 1989, the collapse of the Berlin Wall.
The collapse of the Berlin Wall did discredit Marxism as a threat to the
corporate system and the mass media in Western countries. During the Cold
War, the government and corporate media stirred up a big campaign of fear.
After the Berlin Wall fell, there was no need for a media campaign, so it
stopped. The massive public focus on Communism was really a media invention,
since China is a powerful competitor and dictatorship, but it is capitalist
and does not pose a threat to the capitalist system. It does not want
nuclear war any more than the USSR did.
In fact, a majority of Americans never found what they understood to be
"Communism" to be credible. "Credible" comes from the word "believe," and
most Americans never believed in Stalin's Communism.
On the other hand, an overwhelming majority of Americans have always
believed in communism with a small c. They did not want to have it fully
replace capitalism.
DAN MINETTE and CHARLIE BELL,
You made excellent points to show this. Marx did often portray Communism as
a nationally planned system of worker cooperatives. In other places he wrote
about state ownership. So there are 2 different kinds of economic Socialism:
state-owned businesses and individual cooperative businesses.
But the most common kind of communism Americans accept is patriarchal family
communism. Everyone works to make sure the family is healthy, and if someone
needs something, the others will help. Just as in communism, most things are
shared and there is limited non-exploitive personal property.
The early Christians believed in sharing their wealth as a commun-ity. (Acts
2:44-45): All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And
sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man
had need.
You made a good point about all the cooperatives that still exist and are
even growing in America: farm cooperatives, rural electrical power
cooperatives, art and theater cooperatives, mutual funds, building societies
and credit unions! There is even a .coop domain name, as in www.ncba.coop
(National Cooperative Business Association)
The modern cooperative movement developed out of the "Utopian Socialist"
movement in Britain in the 1800's. Robert Owen is considered the "father of
English Socialism," the fouder of the modern cooperative movement, and the
first person to call himself a "Communist" in the modern sense!
dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/terrace/adw03/peel/economic/owencoop.htm
Owens' statue stands in front of the "Cooperative Bank" in London, a major
credit union.
While the USSR had mostly state-owned businesses like factories, railroads
and postal services, it also had farming cooperatives and credit unions
called "Mutual Help Cash Desks."
To understand the huge disconnect in most people's minds between "Communism"
and communism, you only have to read Truman's 1950 speech to the National
Credit Union Association:
www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=13493
The first half hails cooperatives and cooperative principles. The second
half of the speech says that we must use cooperative principles to fight
Communism. In other words, use communist principles to destroy Communism!
But the US economy was not really based on cooperative principles. 60% of
our stocks are owned by 1% of the population, and the disparity is
increasing. The Cold War during Stalin's time was really a clash between an
elitist economic system and a democratic (people-owned) economic system.
Ironically, the elitist economic system had the republic, and the economic
democracy had the eltist rule.
Of course, America's government is also elitist and economics is the basis
for many wars- even Cold ones.
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