On 6 Mar 2008, at 03:45, David Hobby wrote: > William T Goodall wrote: >> On 5 Mar 2008, at 01:28, David Hobby wrote: >> >>> William T Goodall wrote: >>> ... >>>> High on Mount Sinai, Moses was on psychedelic drugs when he heard >>>> God >>> William-- >>> >>> That doesn't make the experience more or less real, though. >>> >> >> A drug induced hallucination is a real experience that doesn't >> correspond to objectively real events. > > William-- > > As many people were trying to point out to you, > that's not something you can prove.
You do not actually believe that. > You basically > responded by saying that they certainly couldn't > prove it WAS real. Correct, but I imagine they > knew that. > > You're the one here who's claiming certain knowledge > of things that are unknowable. You entirely mistake my epistemology. You are the one claiming that if we don't know something certainly we don't know it at all yet you act as though you are quite satisfied with the less than perfect proof that reality is just what it seems and we are not brains in jars. Clearly we do know things quite satisfactorily well despite not knowing them with complete certainty. Outside of mathematics and logic 'proof' means 'beyond reasonable doubt' not certainty. > > >> It depends what you mean by real Maru. > > Before I attempt a definition, tell me: Are mathematical > objects "real"? (Say the square roots of -1.) There's a terminological can of worms there for sure ;-) If Descartes' demon is messing with your head then nothing in mathematics is any more sure than anything else about the world - perhaps 1 + 1 'really' = 3. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance" - Steve Ballmer _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
