> then why are you so angry? > jon
>I'm not angry. What makes you think that? >Mildly irritated Maru I can't speak for William, but as a non-believer myself, I find a lot to be angry about in the relationship between society and religion. Personally, I am sick and tried of hearing "atheistic" used as a synonym for evil, I'm sick of hearing political candidates of both sides pander to a small minority of fundamentalist believers when surveys consistently show that the second largest "religious affiliation" in the United States (after the combined Christian denominations) are those who consider themselves non-religious or secular. Where are our candidates? Where are the politicians that speak for us? Secular voters, if organized, would be larger block than Jewish voters, or any of the other non-Christian religions combined -- but when was the last time you saw a representative of atheists or agnostics included in some politicians ecumenical service? And can you imagine any candidate for national office in the US saying openly that they don't believe in god? And yet, Chri stian groups constantly present themselves as an oppressed minority battling against the evils of secularism. I'm very very tired of hearing politicians talk about their faith -- as if unquestioning, unsupported belief in anything was something to be proud of. The greatest sins in history -- and certainly almost all the crimes of the Bush administration, from Guantanamo to the war on science and the deliberate suppression of global warming information -- are the crimes of men who believe so totally in a certain point of view that facts are not only unnecessary, not only irrelevant, but an evil that must be suppressed. Anything that we believe in unquestioningly -- and we all have some of these -- is a liability, not a virtue. I'm tired of people telling me that evolution is an "open question" or that there is no real evidence to support it. I'm tired of living in a country where, in the first decade of the 21st century we have a major party (at least one -- Democrats do n't have much more courage here) where every single candidate will openly avow that he doesn't believe in evolution. Who cares? You might not believe in gravity either, but step off a ten story building and see how much good your belief does you. I'm tired of being told that I have to be tolerant of beliefs that, in any other context, we would label delusional and maybe outright insane. (Last year an Orca whale trapped in Puget Sound here in Seattle died because scientists couldn't get close enough to it to rescue it, because local Indians were convinced it was the re-incarnation of their ancient Chief and blocked all the scientists attempts. We have to respect that because it is their culture and their religion? It could just as easily have been fundamentalist Christians convinced that the whale was an instrument of Satan, or that it once housed Jonah, or whatever. Its still insane thinking.) Finally, I'm tired of being told that America is a Christian country and th at the Founding Fathers were Christian heroes when I know that most of them couldn't get elected today to save their lives. They'd be further out on the fringe than Dennis Kucinich. Thomas Jefferson was working on a version of the Bible that eliminated all references to miracles or the supernatural while living in the White House. And the founding fathers deliberately left all mention of god out of the constitution because they intended to set up a secular government, founded on the idea of reason and rationality. Like I said, I can't speak for William, but I can understand how a non-believer can be very angry about a lot of things going on in the world, and though I hope we all try not to, I can understand how someone can become so disillusioned that they start to tar all believers with the same brush. From: William T Goodall<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:07 PM Subject: Re: Religion kills On 4 Aug 2008, at 20:49, Jon Louis Mann wrote: >>> i have to wonder why you are so angry; what did >> religion do to you? >> jon > >> Nothing yet - and I'd like to keep it that way. >> Best Defence Maru >> William T Goodall > > then why are you so angry? > jon I'm not angry. What makes you think that? Mildly irritated Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk<http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk/> Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/<http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/> "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~Voltaire. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l<http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l> _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
