Hi BD,
I spoke to a few people at tour 2 and they wanted me to send this post
again...they heard about it but never recieved it.
Quite a few people came up to me and expressed opinions....mostly confusion
about the rules.
Maybe we can have a response from the UKU? or the UKU could pass it on to the
WFDF?...I'm sure we would prefer
to play to rules that are clear and we all understand.
Maybe the UKU could look at getting an A6 sized mini rule book sent to all
members...after all we are referees in this game
we love. Considering it will go to all members, i'm sure there is an
opportunity to get it sponsored by a few
companies etc. Lookfly, gaia, VC and then others?
My original post is below...
Cheers
Lewis
Original post:
Hi all,
Lately, I have become more and more annoyed by the fact that
the interpretation of what is a foul or not on the mark is
very different across uk ultimate.
Generally i found that when ever a forcer calls foul, it
gets argued. I would like the opinion of anyone will to
consider the below scenerios.
1. A legal position is established and the thrower
pivots into the mark and throws a backhand, the marker,
naturally moves around slightly but in the same plain as the
initial force. The thrower releases the disc and calls foul
due to contact. The throw initiated about 75% of the
contact.
Is this a foul on the mark? A foul on the throw? or neither?
2. A legal position is established and the thrower
pivots into the mark and throws a backhand, the marker,
unnaturally does not move. The thrower releases the disc and
calls foul due to contact. The throw initiated about 100% of
the contact.
Is this a foul on the mark? A foul on the throw? or neither?
3. A legal position is established and the thrower
pivots into the mark and throws a backhand, the marker,
naturally moves around. The thrower releases the disc and
calls foul due to contact. The throw initiated about 50% of
the contact.
Is this a foul on the mark? A foul on the throw? or neither?
4. A legal position is established and the throw then
pivots to throw a throw. Whilst attempting to pivot the
thrower trips / kicks a markers leg. The marker was
slightly moving but the thrower initiated 90% of the
contact.
Is this a foul on the mark? A foul on the throw? or neither?
5. A marker stands less than a disc width away (upper body).
what is the thrower supposed to do? There is no putting the
disc in between like lots of people do in the rules.
Any other scenerios need looking at?
The Rules
*** =highlighted
+++++ =Lewis comment
404.11 The Marker:
A. Guarding: At any time, only one defensive player may guard the
thrower. A player is said to be guarding the
thrower if he or she is within 3 m of the thrower's pivot foot and is not
within 3 m of any other member of the offensive team.
A thrower guarded by more than one defender shall call, "Double team." The
first time this occurs during any one count, the marker should
immediately subtract 2 seconds from the count and continue without
interruption. The second time this occurs is a foul and the count shall be
reset to zero with a check. When guarding the thrower, the marker may not
straddle the pivot foot of the thrower.
+++Obvious+++
When guarding the thrower, the *upper body* of the marker must be at least one
disc's diameter from the *upper body of the thrower at all times*.
It is the mutual responsibility of both players to respect each other's
position and not encroach into the other's area once it is established.*
++++So it's upper body only and NEITHER PARTY may pivot in to the others. So
what happens if both parties move in to an area that
neither of them previously occupied? Is it a foul by the one is encroaches
more? Or is it a foul by who arrives there second?++++
When guarding the thrower, the *marker* cannot position his or her *arms* in
such a manner as to restrict the thrower from pivoting.
+++Note: this rule is talking about arms only. So technically if they can't
pivot because of your legs / body it is not a foul?
Obviously, you can't straddle+++
+++encroach : To advance beyond proper or former limits+++
404.13 Fouls:
A. Definition: Fouls are the result of physical contact between opposing
players. A foul may be called by the player who has been fouled
and must be announced by calling out the word, "foul" loudly and immediately
after the foul has occurred.
B. Responsibility: The player *initiating* contact shall be the player guilty
of the foul.
+++So what happens if both parties move in to an area that neither of them
previously
occupied? Is it a foul by the one is initiates the most? Or is it a foul by who
arrives there second?+++
C. Throwing Fouls: A throwing foul may be called when there is *contact between
the thrower and the marker, prior to the release of the disc
by the thrower*.
Contact occurring during the thrower's follow through is *not* sufficient
grounds for a foul, but should still be avoided whenever possible.
When a foul is committed by the thrower or the marker, play stops and
possession reverts back to the thrower, after a check.
If the thrower is fouled in the act of throwing and the pass is completed, the
foul is automatically declined and play continues without interruption.
If the marker is fouled during the thrower's act of throwing and the pass is
not completed, play continues without interruption.
If the pass is completed, the disc is returned to the thrower after a check and
the stall count is resumed from the point of interruption.
Should a foul or violation result in possession reverting to a thrower who was
airborne while releasing the disc, play shall be restarted at the
point on the playing field proper closest to the location from which the throw
was made. +++ initiating : To set going by taking the first step +++
Cheers
Lewis
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