Whether someone should grab binaries or sources is very dependent on
the situation. You mentioned writing a tutorial, though, and writing
a tutorial for installing a binary distribution is different for
nearly every binary platform. Even if you were to limit the
instructions to just Linux, the details of installing and running are
particular to that distribution.
As for missing the README and INSTALL files, that is completely
understandable and a known limitation of the way binary distributions
are presently packaged up. Basically, the binary distributions are
completed install trees that you are supposed to just copy into
place. That usr/brlcad directory gets put into /usr/brlcad and
you're done. The alternate approach to that would be to have an
installer script with top-level documentation files so it is a bit
more automatic, but that's some repacking and scripting logic that
would have to be worked on by somebody.
As for coordinating, here is just as good a place as any. One
somewhat blunt note, though, is that ideas are cheap. Doing the work
to make those changes is much harder and more time consuming. Your
suggestions are more than welcome. Actually making changes to the
build scripts, installers, website layout, documentation, etc,
though, are much more valuable contributions. ;-)
As for the x86 binary for Linux, it's mostly just a matter of time
and effort invested per platform. We don't make binary releases for
all platforms all the time because it's a heavy overhead burden. So
a given binary platform release get attention as a particular need
arises or when it's simply convenient/easy to update a platform.
Ideally, I'd like to get to the point where there are package
maintainers that create and maintain the binary distributions so that
the developers can focus more effectively on the code.
If the tutorial's didn't work out the way they are shown in the
tutorial, then you probably missed a step. The MGED book in
particular is meant to be run in sequence as a series of tutorials
that build upon each other. You won't be able to proceed very
effectively skimming or skipping sections. As for making a picture,
if you don't see an image by typing "rt" in the command window or
when using the raytrace control panel, then there may be a problem
with the default framebuffer (i.e. a problem that cannot be readily
fixed without recompiling). There are workarounds (e.g., rt -F/dev/
X), but you're better off starting with a clean build made for your
platform.
A) Sounds like a modeling mistake. You either have the wrong boolean
recipe or you were (perhaps unknowingly) displaying the wrong
objects. The only way to diagnose would be to know which tutorial
you were working on and to see your .g file (and ideally see what
steps you tried to display it). It's a steep learning curve, which
is also part why the tutorial series must be followed very
carefully. Even after completing the mged tutorial series, you're
just barely what I'd generally consider a 'novice' modeler. There
are engineering practices and lots of other functionality in BRL-CAD
that has to be mastered to be a proficient novice.
Curious, though, as I don't recall the tutorials covering fbserv.
If you're reading suggestions that were sent to another user
elsewhere, you may be making things much more complex for yourself.
You shouldn't need to use fbserv. The tutorial covers using the
raytrace control panel, which should be all you need to visualize the
resultant objects. That said, there is manual page docs for most of
the command-line commands (like fbserv). We're working on a major
overhaul of the mged-specific documentation so that you can have
manpage-style commands for all of the mged commands too. That's a
huge project, though (and help is welcome!).
B) Fantastic. That will eliminate some of the questions and
confusions hopefully.
Cheers!
Sean
On Feb 23, 2009, at 6:01 AM, Kyle Pearson wrote:
Hello again, CSM --
Yeah, i'm familiar with the config/make/make-install dance. :-)
What was confusing for me was that, on the Sourceforge forae, you
recommended to one new user that they grab the x86 binaries, rather
than the source. I downloaded the binary tarball, but when i
opened it up found only a /usr/brlcad directory tree that i surfed
around a bit -- but not very thoroughly, so i missed the README and
INSTALL files. I was thinking that, if it had any, they'd be
obviously placed. I've found them now, though.
Situations like that are the part of what i think i can help with
-- helping with overall site design, and efficiency, the insertion
of helpful comments here and there. :-) How do you suggest we
co-ordinate that?
So anyway, back to the story: i followed the "Linux" button and
noticed that the latest version of the binaries seemed to be
oriented solely at 64 bit systems -- i didn't see any generic, x86
tarballs in the Sourceforge "Linux Downolads" section, except for
the binaries from a folder in 2007. And it was about then i
decided to float this e-mail, to see where and how i could add some
content to solve things like that -- questions, and weird impasses,
that i imagine a lot of would-be users are probably intimidated by.
I got the binaries working, yesterday, and then went through a
couple of tutorials (a Sunday afternoon, eh?), but encountered a
few problems. Some of the "unions" didn't get drawn like the
pictures i was provided with in the tutorial; i didn't know if
that was convention, a bug, a mistake i made, or what. The only
way i could really tell would be to render it -- i thought -- but I
couldn't get the fbserv command working. I flailed around with it
for an hour or two, first as an ordinary user, and then as "root",
and wound up shifting my Xserver configuration and diddling it up
at the next re-boot. :-P
So i was never able to get it to render, and had no idea where to
go next to figure out what the problem might be. The tutorial had
produced a few figures, but they didn't look like the images on the
website and there was an awful lot that i'd discovered along the
way -- the GUI interface, the terminal interface, etc -- but had no
idea really how to use yet. In other words, i felt like it was
time for another session, and i really had little idea that i was
any further along.
That's not a complaint; it's just that i'm a teacher, and i notice
things like that. So i'd like to find some way to help touch up
small things like that.
So -- where i'm at:
A) Got the binaries properly "installed" and played around with
them a bit. I hit a few snags, though, in the fbserver command:
the display i got wasn't what i was expecting, from the
documentation provided. The "handle" went through the wall of the
"cup", and even after the union was performed that anomaly
remained. Was it a display bug? Was it a bug at all?? Would
rendering clear that up? I had no idea where to go to learn the
answers, nor even what to do next. I tried rendering it, but the
fbserv command got in the way. So i have lots of questions, but no
answers, and am eager to figure out the fbserv so i can start
rendering things. :-P
-- Is this a problem with the binaries, and -- if so -- then what
are the binaries good for?
===> And i think a copy of this information -- which i'll be
happy to type up -- would be good on the Sourceforge download's
page, your website, and more conspicuously placed within the binary
tarball -- as, say, a "README.brl-cad.txt" file that pops out along
with the file-tree. Not because it's necessary -- but just because
it's an easy thing you could do (in the next release, if you wish)
that would be a big help.
-- If rendering would have helped, then: are there more reliable
commands than fbserv for rendering things?
-- If not, and i must use the command (and use it often!), then
i'm going to need to learn a bit from you about how to troubleshoot
it -- a man page, so to speak -- so i can introduce it properly,
and more helpfully. I didn't find anything on your website, or in
the html pages, but i haven't looked at anything else from the
binaries b/c i deleted them just now. :-) For the compliation.
Just below.
B) Since i'm still not sure i can trust the interface, yet -- and
since eventually, i'm going to need to do somethign like this,
anyway -- i'm going to compile it. I'll let you know how it goes.
At any rate, as you can see: i'm already at work on the first
page, and taking notes. :-) Thanks for the patience --
Cheers --
K.
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Christopher Sean Morrison
<[email protected]> wrote:
Kyle,
Hi and thanks for the message! That sounds like a fantastic idea
you have there. It's actually been on our to-do list to have a
succinct "introduction to BRL-CAD" that covers installation and
basic use. For coaching you, I'd be happy to help you one-on-one
via e-mail. I would suggest, though, that we talk on the brlcad-
users mailing list (cc'd) since that will afford others the
opportunity to help you too. That can be particularly useful for
those times when I'm overloaded and may possibly give you (and
others) more breadth of an answer to questions as they come up.
The brlcad-users mailing list can be joined [1] here:
[1] https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/brlcad-users
As for installation, the steps are usually very specific to the
platform you're installing on except for installing from a source
code release (where it's the same for most platforms). If you're
on Linux, that's what I would say you should start with just to
make the steps the easiest to make generic (at least in terms of
contributing a tutorial). So the first step would be to go to
http://brlcad.org and selecting "Download" off the menu, then
selecting the Source link. That will take you to [2] a page on
Sourceforge that has all source downloads listed. Download one of
them and unpack the tarball.
[2] https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?
group_id=105292&package_id=113368
Once you unpack the sources, like most open source packages, there
are a couple "standard" files that you should read. That would be
the [3] README and [4] INSTALL files.
[3] http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/
README
[4] http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/
INSTALL
While the exact instructions and options will vary slightly from
release to release and will depend on your platform, the basic
compile-and-install steps are pretty much the same. You prepare
the build system "autogen.sh", you specify compilation options with
"configure", you run "make" to build everything, and then "make
install" to install everything. For purposes of a tutorial, the
steps that will generally work best for most are:
sh autogen.sh
./configure --enable-all --without-ogl --enable-optimized
make
sudo make install
To understand everything that is spelled out there requires reading
through most of [3] README and [4] INSTALL but is pretty common for
most Linux source installations. That should get you started.
Assuming everything compiles and installs cleanly, the [4] INSTALL
file covers how to test the installation to make sure everything is
okay. Once that is done, our existing [5] Documentation then
becomes invaluable. I'd suggest going through the list one at a
time in order going down the list.
[5] http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
The second document, "Introduction to MGED" is a very detailed
series of tutorials that aim to get someone familiar with the
basics of modeling using BRL-CAD. Please don't hesitate to write
back with any questions or clarifications.
Cheers!
Sean
On Feb 21, 2009, at 5:00 AM, Kyle Pearson wrote:
I'm a teacher, and have done a bit of technical writing, and i'm
also interested in learning brl-cad -- but i've never used CAD
software and have no idea where to begin sifting the mountain of
your documentation to get to design even a simple object (right
now, the project is a fine-wood bread-maker's cabinet).
So i've been around Linux for a few years, and have always been
interested in contributing something, but never really saw an
opportunity like this one. I'd love to help y'all write up some
basic introductions to brl-cad; i could learn a lot, get some
free coaching on its installation, usage, and whatnot, and then
write up what i learn as tutorials.
We could start with "installation", and go from there. :-)
I'm familiar enough with Linux systems that, in a small-business
situation, i could probably pass as an adequate sysadmin. I live
in Taiwan, though, and those guys are a dime-a-dozen. I have
virtually no familiarity with coding applications, nor with full-
featured programming languages -- just enough to get by, and no more.
I think my abilities are well matched to this task, and would be
happy to lend a hand -- at least for a few months.
So if y'all would like to set me up with a contact who'd be
willing to patiently coach me through the fundmentals, then i'd be
more than happy to write up the lessons i receive as tutorials,
hyper-link them, and construct a basic set of introductory
materials that people can use to get started.
K. Pearson
--
Pray for Gaza, and the brave, beleaguered Palestinians.
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
--
Pray for Gaza, and the brave, beleaguered Palestinians.
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
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-OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing the Enterprise
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