Hi all,
My personal openion is that, the certification
should worth some thing
for the employer(Organization) who has implemented BSD.Also there is
another important thing to remember, that is a candidate taking the
certification should
find some job in the market.Because certifications are more or less a sign of
knowledge,capability and talent.These 3 things are the impotant ones.But there
are other factors such as interest,scope of job affecting the value of a career.
So my openion is to some kind of standardiation for the certification.
I also have
the openion that the certification to be more lab oriented than theory.
thanks
Sreenath.G
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:46:52 -0500 (EST),
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re[2]: [BSDcert] Disclosure of test questions (Andrei Buzoianu)
> 2. Re: Disclosure of test questions (Freddie Cash)
> 3. Re: the study material question (Ian Morrison)
> 4. Re: the study material question (Ye Wei)
> 5. Re: the study material question (Jeremy C. Reed)
> 6. Re: the study material question (George R.)
> 7. Re: Disclosure of test questions (Sancho2k.net Lists)
> 8. Re: the study material question (Nikolas Britton)
> 9. Re: the study material question (Siju George)
> 10. Re: BSD books for Asian countries (Siju George)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 01:53:15 +0300
> From: Andrei Buzoianu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re[2]: [BSDcert] Disclosure of test questions
> To: "Lucas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > But when logging in remotely you could still have help from someone.
> > I doubt an employer would care much about a certification that you
> > could get from home... Don't get me wrong, I don't like that, but I
> > think it's true.
>
> > Also, in order for the certification not to be the dreaded 'toiletpaper',
> > shouldn't there be a more practical part? I vagely remember reading about
> > the RHCE certification, didn't that include having to fix real problems, on
> > wich you could use any man-pages and faqs, but had to fix it in a
> > time-limit?
> > And if that wasn't the RHCE, isn't it a good idea anyway :-)
>
> > Out of curiosity, what kind of price do you think is reasonable? I really
> > find that hard to think about, any opinions here?
>
> > Lucas
>
> You can still get help even in a time-limit enviroment. Maybe some
> form of testing centers? Like trusted people arround the world? Just
> mind surfing ...
>
> --
> Andrei
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 15:01:48 -0800
> From: Freddie Cash <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] Disclosure of test questions
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On March 30, 2005 02:43 pm, Lucas wrote:
> > But when logging in remotely you could still have help from someone.
> > I doubt an employer would care much about a certification that you
> > could get from home... Don't get me wrong, I don't like that, but I
> > think it's true.
>
> > Also, in order for the certification not to be the dreaded
> > 'toiletpaper', shouldn't there be a more practical part? I vagely
> > remember reading about the RHCE certification, didn't that include
> > having to fix real problems, on wich you could use any man-pages and
> > faqs, but had to fix it in a time-limit? And if that wasn't the RHCE,
> > isn't it a good idea anyway :-)
>
> Yes, that's the RHCE. Our IT Analyst did that one recently (2003) in
> Vancouver. They have a lab setup with a bunch of computers. These
> computers are imaged using the RedHat kickstart setup. The computer is
> imaged with something broken somewhere, and you're given a short
> description of the symptoms. You have to fix the problem within a certain
> time. Once you are done, someone walks over, checks your solution, marks
> down the score, then runs a bunch of commands to re-image the computer
> with the next problem. And so on down the list. I believe you're given 2
> hours for the practical tests.
>
> He really liked the experience, and we now use a variation of this setup in
> our job interviews for IT positions.
>
> --
> Freddie Cash, CLCP CNCP Network Support / Helpdesk
> School District 73 (250) 377-4357
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:37:14 +0100
> From: Ian Morrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] the study material question
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> * Andrei Buzoianu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-03-30 22:42]:
>
> > Agree. Material-reviewing team is most needed too.
> > Seems to me this is going to be a good test on how much people are
> > willing to contribute.
>
> i think that as long as the project remains useful to individuals and
> the community at large, there'll be more than enough support. the big
> issue seems to be openness, and personally, i'm pretty cynical of
> psychometric tests - as has been pointed out its difficult to measure
> experience which is pretty much what we're trying to do). for me,
> although i'm pleased when an SA can do something, i'm a lot happier once
> they've documented it. perhaps there's some way of getting the first
> batch of students to help produce teaching materials, or having them
> create something more like a diary of what they've done and why.
> coursework is what i'm thinking of..
>
> it seems to me that learning how systems work is about iterating around
> problems, seeing them from multiple angles, and when your experience is
> documented and repeated, it very quickly becomes permanent and reusable
> in a host of other scenarios. and when that's happened enough, even
> when you've not got a clue about what's happened or what's wrong, you
> can quickly make a judgement and have a point to start fixing it from.
>
> lastly, i'm not convinced that the current forms of certification are
> that valuable in the trenches, when compared to constant exposure to
> incidents. provided that bsdcerts can show that it's approach produces
> great admins, any decent IT department will see that. there are already
> a lot of other established options for the conservative and more
> business goal orientated organisations and i think it would be a waste
> to do a "BSD RHCE" type of thing. we're potentially building a machine
> here, that sucks in mortals in one end and spits out guru's at the
> other. what do the guru's of tomorrow need to understand to save us from
> the clutches of brokenness?
>
> stay frosty,
>
> ian
> --
> [darq# [EMAIL PROTECTED] thoroughly modern misfit
> [http://darq.net/#/] complete the puzzle : uid ---- day
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:10:45 +0800
> From: Ye Wei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] the study material question
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I think we need a management team to make a plan.
> 1. Create core team.
> 2. Prepare the certificate guideline and consider which knowledge is
> necessary for different certificate level?
> 2. Choose the certificate test method.
> 3. Create material or test prepare team to prepare the material and test.
>
> And then we can start work actually. :-)
>
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:37:14 +0100, Ian Morrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > * Andrei Buzoianu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-03-30 22:42]:
> >
> > > Agree. Material-reviewing team is most needed too.
> > > Seems to me this is going to be a good test on how much people are
> > > willing to contribute.
> >
> > i think that as long as the project remains useful to individuals and
> > the community at large, there'll be more than enough support. the big
> > issue seems to be openness, and personally, i'm pretty cynical of
> > psychometric tests - as has been pointed out its difficult to measure
> > experience which is pretty much what we're trying to do). for me,
> > although i'm pleased when an SA can do something, i'm a lot happier once
> > they've documented it. perhaps there's some way of getting the first
> > batch of students to help produce teaching materials, or having them
> > create something more like a diary of what they've done and why.
> > coursework is what i'm thinking of..
> >
> > it seems to me that learning how systems work is about iterating around
> > problems, seeing them from multiple angles, and when your experience is
> > documented and repeated, it very quickly becomes permanent and reusable
> > in a host of other scenarios. and when that's happened enough, even
> > when you've not got a clue about what's happened or what's wrong, you
> > can quickly make a judgement and have a point to start fixing it from.
> >
> > lastly, i'm not convinced that the current forms of certification are
> > that valuable in the trenches, when compared to constant exposure to
> > incidents. provided that bsdcerts can show that it's approach produces
> > great admins, any decent IT department will see that. there are already
> > a lot of other established options for the conservative and more
> > business goal orientated organisations and i think it would be a waste
> > to do a "BSD RHCE" type of thing. we're potentially building a machine
> > here, that sucks in mortals in one end and spits out guru's at the
> > other. what do the guru's of tomorrow need to understand to save us from
> > the clutches of brokenness?
> >
> > stay frosty,
> >
> > ian
> > --
> > [darq# [EMAIL PROTECTED] thoroughly modern misfit
> > [http://darq.net/#/] complete the puzzle : uid ---- day
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BSDCert mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/bsdcert
> >
>
> --
> Regards,
> Ye Wei
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:20:45 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Jeremy C. Reed" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] the study material question
> To: Ye Wei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Message-ID:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Ye Wei wrote:
>
> > I think we need a management team to make a plan.
> > 1. Create core team.
>
> We agree. Please see the website and the news announcement.
>
> > 2. Prepare the certificate guideline and consider which knowledge is
> > necessary for different certificate level?
>
> Stay tuned. :)
>
> > 2. Choose the certificate test method.
> > 3. Create material or test prepare team to prepare the material and test.
> >
> > And then we can start work actually. :-)
>
> Jeremy C. Reed
>
> BSD News, BSD tutorials, BSD links
> http://www.bsdnewsletter.com/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:52:23 -0500
> From: "George R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] the study material question
> To: Ye Wei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Mar 30, 2005, at 8:10 PM, Ye Wei wrote:
>
> > I think we need a management team to make a plan.
> > 1. Create core team.
>
> That we have. . . check out the www site:
>
> http://www.bsdcertification.org/about.htm
>
> > 2. Prepare the certificate guideline and consider which knowledge is
> > necessary for different certificate level?
> > 2. Choose the certificate test method.
> > 3. Create material or test prepare team to prepare the material and
> > test.
> >
> > And then we can start work actually. :-)
> >
>
> This is among a whole number of questions we've been discussing.
>
> We'd love to have feedback from you on these things. . .
>
> George
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:28:00 -0700
> From: "Sancho2k.net Lists" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] Disclosure of test questions
> To: David TAILLANDIER <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> David TAILLANDIER wrote:
> >
> > If the BSD certification group is somewhat open, how do you plan to
> > create tests without people knowing the answers ?
> >
> > The tests then have to be prepared by trusted people, using a private
> > mailing list or website.
> >
> > Not only the answers have to remain secret. The questions have too.
> > Otherwise anyone can list the questions before taking the test, learn
> > the good answers and then go to pass the test without any real
> > knowledge. Just memory.
> >
> > In this case, the BSD certification group is not something 'open'
> > anymore.
>
> Why is that a problem in this respect? It makes perfect sense to me. A
> nonsense way to "close it up" in the manner which you are speaking is to
> make people first join a member's group for an annual fee, then charge
> an exhorbent rate for testing fees after a formal pre-test test
> screening, and then provide the only information about the tests or
> certification program through "official channels", and then require
> recertification every N years according to points earned at "certified"
> seminars, conferences, and training centers, again for an annual
> membership fee.
>
> Should the BSD certficiation group ever become this "not open", then
> I'll begin to worry. Protecting the integrity of the certification
> material from the public hardly seems a negative closing to me.
>
> DS
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:34:19 -0600
> From: Nikolas Britton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] the study material question
> To: Mike Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Mike Jackson wrote:
>
> >>> I would assume that the BSD Certification Group would have a deal
> >>> with one of the nationwide (international?) testing centers that
> >>> administer tests for other certifications, like Pearson VUE or
> >>> Prometric (they do the Microsoft certification tests).
> >>
> >>
> >> Ok a starting point, good. We could use one of those testing
> >> companies but are you willing to pony up the money, normally like
> >> $100 per test, to take the tests, I won't be and I think one of the
> >> goals of this project was to keep the costs as low as possible. I
> >> think we are going to have look at alternatives or create are own
> >> solution. I have a proposed solution that should work...... arrggg my
> >> ride is here so I have to go, I'll tell it later.
> >
> >
> > My impression of certifications is that the ones that hold weight with
> > employers are the ones that -- well, the ones that you have to shell
> > out cold, hard cash to prove that you're worthy of having it. Do
> > things like Brainbench certs carry any weight? I highly doubt it.
>
> I'm not looking to impress any employers, the main reason for me wanting
> to take them is to benchmark myself. If there anything like the MCSE
> series, 6 to 9? tests at $100+ each, I will NOT be taking them and will
> unsubscribe from the list. I don't see why we can't develop are own web
> enabled testing suite so virtually anyone can proctor a test, this would
> keep costs way down and get the tests out there today instead of
> tomorrow because it can grow exponentially. I'll finish writing up my
> idea on this concept so you guys can critique it in a day or two.
>
> Also, I don't think Pearson VUE, Prometric or whoever are global
> companys, being able to take this test anywhere in the world is one of
> the requirements set forth.
>
> long day, time for bed, later
> foobar
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 10:32:02 +0530
> From: Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] the study material question
> To: Mark Stanislav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 00:46:30 -0500, Mark Stanislav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > If these statements are actually true why is it not easy to just
> > > prepare a list of resources and give it along with the course outlines
> > > so that people can easilylocate them ? Again please note I am not
> > > suggesting creating new study materials although feel that it won't
> > > be a very bad Idea.
> > >
> >
> > It is that easy, and I would recommend that it is done on the web site.
> >
>
> Thats my opinion too :))
>
> --Siju
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 12:16:40 +0530
> From: Siju George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [BSDcert] BSD books for Asian countries
> To: Ye Wei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Ye,
>
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:01:53 +0800, Ye Wei <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > I think BSDs has a bright future in China too.
> > More and more people know about the Open Source and BSDs. The
> > major reasons are the BSDs are free and BSD Licence is more free and
> > open than GPL.
> >
>
> Sure :))
>
> > We have very little books about BSDs in the bookstore.
> >
>
> I bought
>
> Squid: the Drfinitive Guide from
>
> http://www.shroffpublishers.com/
>
> Behind the book they have this writen
>
> "For sale in Indian Subcontinent ( India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri
> Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan ) and African Continent ( excluding Morocco,
> Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, and the Republic of South Affrica)
> only. Illegal for sale outside of these countries"
>
> I don't know why China is left out.
>
> But chineese products come to India at a much cheaper rate. And I
> believe that chinese publishers also can have some type of tie-ups
> with publishers of BSD books just like
>
> http://www.shroffpublishers.com/
>
> did.
>
> kind regards
>
> Siju
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> BSDCert mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.nycbug.org/mailman/listinfo/bsdcert
>
> End of BSDCert Digest, Vol 3, Issue 25
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