Am 04.04.2018 um 00:10 schrieb Paul Eggert: > On 04/03/2018 12:29 PM, kalle wrote: >> >> But what do you think of my teaching concept, to try to explain why a >> `7' in `755' means =4+2+1=111=rwx="rwx for owner", which is assumed as >> self-evident or intuitive in both the original text and your patch? > > I think it's out of place in the coreutils manual, just as (for example) > the manual need not mention computer keyboard layouts in order to tell > users how to type 'sort -r'. Assuming basic computer concepts simplifies > the manual and makes it easier for typical users to read, which is a win.
I find your example far away from the actual problem: computer keyboard layouts and how to define them is important but much more general than 'sort -r' and in my opinion it should be described somewhere (actually keymaps(5),loadkeys(1) and so forth) and be referred to at crucial moments. While for `File Permission', I don't even know if this methodology of encoding information (I mean "symbolical notation rwx for owner = symbolical notation rwx = symbolical notation 111= interpreting 111 numerically in binary = transforming to numerical octal 7") is just used in this special case or is used more generally throughout the GNU programs. In any case it is _not_ just octal, but a specific way of translating numerical octal to a symbolic notation (and that's what I tried to explain in my patch) even if some nerds knew it's meaning by experience. At least it should be referred to the place, where the concept is explained. And referencing to the internet is non an elegant way, as it could be the case, that the person doesn't have any access to it. Assuming that new users necessarily know about this special way of using octal numbers is simply newbie-unfriendly. Imagine someone starting to learn `ls' or `mv' or just 'File Permissions' now directly being stuck with this methodology. What is this person expected to have read before starting learning how to work with the CLI through documentation-systems as `info' or `man' apart from complicated imperialist english language? after my patch proposal, paul eggert wrote: "I think part of the problem is that this is not really the place to explain octal notation; any reader who doesn't know octal before reading the manual is not likely to understand it even with the proposed rewrite. I think we should just give up and assume that the reader knows octal (if they don't they should be using symbolic modes)." The more appropriate way imo would be to look up for a good place for a explanation rather than "giving up" so quickly. kalle