The "patterns" involved I am referring to do not strictly have a period as such;; they have a demperiod.
Simlar to how symmetry has several regular fixed periodic structures (l/r bilateral, rotational, etc.) there are other "quasi" symmetrical patterns , such as a spiral (rotate an angle, and percentilly increase the function the same amount) that have no "symmetry" as originally defined. Similarly tiling occur in regular symmetric spaces; and if you look att he _graph_ of a Mandelbrot set, you wil NOT see a symmetrical pattern they are all unique. BUT there _is_ a "close" to symmetrical demi-pattern effect present. The _same_ type of thing is present within Mersenne space (how, what it is, what the "replicabiltiy" factors are, what the phases, where the critical categorical probability cleaves are, _I_ do not _know_. I do not knoow that the trigggerpoints are _fixe_ in any radix concrete sense 9as in a metric pattern on a linear scale); I _do_ asert that I _observed_ the triggering points against pattern within the rolls as given out by the PRNG selected (which is from memory only, defaulted to Mersenne twister with default seed, and similar probability levels observed with differing seeds: initial conclusion,t entative: a triggering "banyan" of demi-patterns recognized, NOT by me, but by the GNUBG NN against a specific DB instance because of the extremely low probability of exactly the 2nd and 3rd rolls of the dice, in a space where what SHOUDL have been equipotential provbility of rolls against the state space of the CURRENT state of the bg play on the 2nd and 3rd rolls of patterns of 3, 9, and 27 rolls all of these "measurements" my informal observed counting of it as being 20-50% improbable to occur at _exactly the correct point to "knock" the game space into _exactly the unstable, and then (at 2nd and 3rd interleave) into the "winning" branch of unstable game trees mainly at the 45-55% win/lose probabiltiy levels. All of this roughly. This in turn implied: that either I had a virus ppresent on the machine (whichI at times I HAVE HAD ONE) or that I was mis measuring the vents (which at times I HAVE DONE) or that I ws missing a critical junction of deterministics implied strictly by BackGammon rules (which at times I HAVE DONE) or: the GNUBG NN with a specific DB instance was: correctly finding trigger points on a STATIC cleave basis against at LEAST at 1.2.3 level Markohv chain process against a thirds/level martingale sequence: at 2/3, 5/9, and 14/27 probabiltiy levels to FLIP the unstable game at either or probabilities into a STABLE branch of the game tree at 55-66% probabiltites against. On rols that were in stages 2 & 3 of the triples IMprobable. And: I have (unless virally removed) snapshots graphics of the game spaces as well as some of the GNUBG game files (about 200 of them or more). I have not had the assets to dnoue the anlysis formally. (As I mentioned I am under viral attack). Adn that in turn could also provide a convenient excuse if the game sequences I give you do NOT match the Mersenne seeds involved, or the specifics of the analysis do not bear fruit in yuor eyes according to what I have told I saw. But you should also note something else: At times, the originator of a specific new techology succesfully working (yuo, and GNUBG/NNP programming for BG) will miss other side effects. And, the person or group that notes that these are PRESENT will also fotimes miss the exact particulars of WHERE HOW or WHY it is occurring. And it remains to hard core hard metrified scientific reasearch and PROOF to PUL OOUT the seed kernels from the chaff that is often blown off a field ready for harvest. SO: is the field ready for harvest? And any one out there want to go get the seed kernels? before they sprout in some other way? I _observed_ the demi pattern in the _results_ of GNUG's play on a given database (as delivered, fixed), as against the tripartite three-level folding I describe in the earlier On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 16:13, Michael Petch <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > On 21/08/09 11:37 AM, "Frank Berger" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This is absolute nonsens. > > Why? quite easy. Any NN I'm aware of is presented the position to > > evaluate it. > > Therefore it never sees the dice and can therefore not learn a pattern. > > > > I agree and disagree. The NN never sees the dice - agreed. However I > believe an NN is indirectly guided by the dice. If you took the neural net > trainer and had Gnubg play itself again but this time set up the random > number source to throw away all the doubles I am pretty sure how the Bot > learns to play the game over time will change. > > My opinion though is the Mersenne Twister is cryptographically strong > enough > and has such a massive period that the Bot would likely not be able to see > anything (the period for standard 32 bit versions of mersenne are 2^219937 > ? > 1). > > On a side note if one reviews the code from the old days, Mersenne Twister > was not available (Unimplemented) and the random data source could have > also > been something with a considerable shorter period. > > If you trained with one random number generator and then play with another > any thing the NN might have learned as a result doesn't matter. GnuBG > doesn't continue to learn while it plays humans (or have knwoledge of the > generator being used during the actual match), so it can't possible garner > knowledge from random number generators it may never have seen (or were > implemented differently). > > I have read most of Roy's online postings, and his website and authoring > pages. His view on Gnubg is that it is self learning and changes as it > plays > an opponent. This is his single biggest false assumption. He asked Albert You are either directly lying or as obtuse as it gets. I have noted that is DOES self learn WHEN THE DB IS OPEN. Nothing else. Please do not mis state my position again. When you deliberate mangle an argument that way you lay yourself open to severe issues of slander: it will harm the valid results of GNUBG if you pursue it this way, whether you win or not,. And that will denoue the VALID results within GNUBG. When you msiqwualified my statements of _asserted_ into _proved_ from start to finish of your original exposition, you laid yourself open to a specific charge against the specifics of the intentions within the GNU public license,. I urge you to go back and review that content NOW. Do not go down this path. It actually does have concrete legal implications. Not that I have the resources to pursue them: right now I am more worried about 2 years of death threats and a specificc murder (Yoshio Nakada0 in the DC homeless community, with side ramification against a cluster of 4+ other individuals (3 injured or killed) of whichI am a member. But: I suspect you may find thwat the GNU group will react DAMNED strongly if it finds you have _intentionally_ misqualified what position I have stated. Please do not do this again. Bypass disenfranchisement of a member of the publci in open discussion by directly deliberate muis-statement of the positioon as stated using your positon ithin the group and support from members int he group will only make the matter worse. Diret vendetta hidden undeer a facade of respectability reverses the intent of everything GNU stands for. Do not do so again. Please. > Silver in 2006 if the assumption that Gnubg learns during a match was > correct. I believe since then Roy has continued to believe that the bot > continues to learn, although he's been told the contrary. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bug-gnubg mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg > -- Use Reply-To: & thread your email after the first: or it may take a while, as I get 2000+ emails per day. -- Roy A. Crabtree UNC '76 gaa.lifer# 11086 (mail, residence) Roy A. Crabtree 3322 Wheeler Road SE Oak Hill Apartments #T-4 Washington, DC 20032-4166 202-562-1909 US no voicemail (try after 2100EST) (secondary mail) Roy A. Crabtree USPS POB 58097 Washington, DC 20034-8097 703-318-2106 (msgs only, use my name) (best effort next day M-F pickup) [When you hear/read/see/feel what a y*ehudi plays/writes/sculpts/holds] [(n)either violinist {Menuhin} (n)or writer {"The Y*ehudi Principle"} (n)or molder (n)or older] [you must strive/think/look/sense all of it, or you will miss the meanings of it all] [email protected] Forwards only to: [email protected] [email protected] CC: auto to ^ http://musings-roy-crabtree.blogspot.com [& others] http://www.authorsden.com/royacrabtree http://skyscraper.fortunecity.com/activex/720/resume/full.doc -- (c) RAC/IP, ARE,PRO,PAST (Copyright) Roy Andrew Crabtree/In Perpetuity All Rights/Reserved Explicitly Public Reuse Only Profits Always Safe Traded
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