Re: Requested gnubgautorcOne thread or four is making no difference at all here. Each just gets the same result it got before. There is a sort of consistency in that the wrong result can be reproduced just like the right one. I just don't know exactly what triggers a move between them. Mike can you get 3-ply up as showing No double/Take? If you do I bet a rollout from there will be very close to my initial .847 take rather than the correct .877 take. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Petch To: Neil Robins Cc: [email protected] Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 9:30 AM Subject: Re: Requested gnubgautorc
I think this was asked earlier by someone else. Have you tried both these versions of Gnubg where Threads have been set to one on each. One thing some of us have noticed is that results can vary based on threads being higher than 1. I am just curious. What results on rollouts do you get when you run with 1 thread only (I am trying to eliminate the most obvious reason for a possible difference). If I understand your output below you have 2 versions with same settings producing different results. On 28/08/09 2:15 AM, "Neil Robins" <[email protected]> wrote: TRUMP THIS FOR NONSENSE I now have two versions of GNU open on my computer and after a lot of trial and error, clicking around etc, but changing no basic settings, I seem to have achieved getting one each to reproduce the differing results I got earlier. Other plys may be producing nonsense, but at least it's consistent nonsense. I see these inconsistencies as a huge problem. GNU Backgammon Position ID: gwEAQCoAAAAAAA Match ID : cAmgACAAGAAA +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+ O: wwwcars | | | O O | OOO 2 points | | | O O | OO | | | | OO | | | | OO | | | | OO v| |BAR| | 5 point match (Cube: 1) | | | | XX | | | | XX | | | | XX | | | | XX On roll | | | X X X X | XXX 3 points +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+ X: Anterico Cube analysis 3-ply cubeless equity +0.386 (Money: +0.386) 0.693 0.000 0.000 - 0.307 0.000 0.000 Cubeful equities: 1. No double +0.599 2. Double, pass +1.000 ( +0.401) 3. Double, take +0.541 ( -0.059) Proper cube action: No double, take (12.8%) Rollout details: Centered 1-cube: 0.728 0.000 0.000 - 0.272 0.000 0.000 CL +0.455 CF +0.647 [0.000 0.000 0.000 - 0.000 0.000 0.000 CL 0.001 CF 0.001] Player wwwcars owns 2-cube: 0.732 0.000 0.000 - 0.268 0.000 0.000 CL +1.529 CF +0.847 [0.000 0.000 0.000 - 0.000 0.000 0.000 CL 0.000 CF 0.001] Full cubeful rollout with var.redn. 20736 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 867000880 and quasi-random dice Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world class] keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16 Skip pruning for 1-ply moves. Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world class] GNU Backgammon Position ID: gwEAQCoAAAAAAA Match ID : cAmgACAAGAAA +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+ O: gnubg | | | O O | OOO 2 points | | | O O | OO | | | | OO | | | | OO | | | | OO v| |BAR| | 5 point match (Cube: 1) | | | | XX | | | | XX | | | | XX | | | | XX On roll | | | X X X X | XXX 3 points +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+ X: Neil Cube analysis 3-ply cubeless equity +0.420 (Money: +0.420) 0.710 0.000 0.000 - 0.290 0.000 0.000 Cubeful equities: 1. Double, take +0.677 2. Double, pass +1.000 ( +0.323) 3. No double +0.599 ( -0.077) Proper cube action: Double, take Rollout details: Centered 1-cube: 0.728 0.000 0.000 - 0.272 0.000 0.000 CL +0.455 CF +0.647 [0.000 0.000 0.000 - 0.000 0.000 0.000 CL 0.001 CF 0.001] Player gnubg owns 2-cube: 0.735 0.000 0.000 - 0.265 0.000 0.000 CL +1.549 CF +0.877 [0.000 0.000 0.000 - 0.000 0.000 0.000 CL 0.000 CF 0.000] Full cubeful rollout with var.redn. 20736 games, Mersenne Twister dice gen. with seed 867000880 and quasi-random dice Play: world class 2-ply cubeful prune [world class] keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16 Skip pruning for 1-ply moves. Cube: 2-ply cubeful prune [world class] ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Petch <mailto:[email protected]> To: Neil Robins <mailto:[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: Re: Requested gnubgautorc Interestingly enough, after doing some experiments (with evaluations, not rollouts), I am unsure there is a "bug" here. The position seems very volatile if you factor in potential future cube decisions. It may just be a fluke that 1 and 2 ply got it right (It didn't look deep enough to see future cube actions). I'd like to hear feedback from others on this. With that in mind I asked GnuBG to tell me (as an experiment) what the result would be if the checker play evaluations on cube decisions were cubeless, and except for 0 ply everything came out Double/take. On a side note, and I am wondering how other people feel about this. On the Hint screen (or on analysis pane for analyzed positions) you have the "0/1/2/3/4" buttons Each corresponds to a "cubeful N play evaluation". I have always found this not be be very intuitive. My expectation would be that "0/1/2/3/4" would use the existing settings that you can see with "..." and simply change the ply level for cube and checker (and keep all other settings like cubeful/cubeless/noise/filter the same). I found myself wanting to do cubeless checker play evaluations on cube decisions and I kept having to click "..." change the ply level manually, click OK, then hit the Eval button. My view is that if I hit those buttons "0/1/2/3/4" I want to see the difference at each ply level with respect to my current eval settings. Michael On 27/08/09 2:24 PM, "Neil Robins" <[email protected]> wrote: I have same result as initially on a different computer with 20090612 version. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Petch <mailto:[email protected]> To: Neil Robins <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Requested gnubgautorc Something is very bizarre. I'm going to try some experiments with some internal features of Gnubg turned off. But as you suggested in your post, exiting Gnubg and restarting alters the outcomes. but then I have found sometimes all plies start giving the right output. On 27/08/09 1:43 PM, "Neil Robins" <[email protected]> wrote: Strangely, I am yet to see a problem with any other position.
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